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Concerns about new missiles |
Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
|  Posted: 2010-08-18 22:20
I am a lover of missiles, and ICC as well. I really like the idea of fewer but more dangerous missiles. However, I've seen how the new missiles play out against point defense and I have a concern. Namely, will the interaction between missiles and point defense change in some way so that a ship with all beams set to PD isn't invulnerable to missiles? As it is, cruiser and larger hulls are the prime targets for missiles but it seems that they can pretty easily destroy all incoming missiles from the new ships.
Even two ICC missile destroyers on a cruiser, and that cruiser can take down most of the missiles without too much damage before the destroyers are out of ammunition. This is ICC/UGTO, since K'luth just need to toggle cloak and the missiles go poof.
The number of beams on a ship has not decreased, and the new missiles are fewer in number. Still, even with increased effectiveness, if they get shot down they're not that effective.
I don't know what the solution is, just wanted to bring it up. I'm sure I'm not the first person to have done so but I looked around for similar posts and didn't see anything.
Thoughts?
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-08-18 22:48
-pd sucks up energy, especially when moving
-im not sure a cruiser could pd 10 missles unless it was a tc
but fighters are even worse
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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2010-08-18 23:26
Going forward, there will be fewer but more capable missiles. I believe that if they are not made more difficult to shoot down in some way, that missiles will only be useful when a ship's beams are tied up with something else. ie, they'll only be good as support vessels.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-08-19 05:07
As proved by yesterdays test with the improved PD in beta, missiles still hurt.
My EAD was able to counter one MD (just about). Two MD's, and I was SOL.
They work fine.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2010-08-19 05:22
One should hasten to add that this was with the current missile dreads, rather than new ones that might have fewer missiles.
However, unless there are vastly, vastly fewer missiles, most ships should still have issues with keeping missile volleys at bay, particularly ships that can't generate more power than they use when firing all of their beams.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-08-19 11:15
Yup, Escort/Picket DDs especially since they have beams out the wazoo but no aux reactor. Energy drain is constant even if you're not moving at all or barely moving, and If you're moving much more than 1/2 speed your energy gets sucked down like a flushing toilet. Of course if you stop moving to conserve energy then you just paint a giant target on yourself.
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-08-19 16:59
Point defense feels to perfect, to flawless and to good.
Basically one missile fired at a ship with one chemical laser set to point defines, will result in one dead missile.
To punch through a barrier of point defense you need more missiles then the target has in active point defense. I know this isn't completely true, as their is a delay between beams being fired as PD. But one way or an other you need quit a volley of missiles to be effective against enemy ships, for one or two missiles will simply be shot down.
I really hope point defense would have a chance of NOT being successful at shooting down a missile. Currently I don't believe they are able to miss, for I've not seen it happen.
If PD wasn't 100% accurate a single missile would have a slim chance of still hitting.
Ships don't need an insane amount of missile launchers. Less missiles, less lag caused by them.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-08-19 17:46
Missiles will eventually win out over PD through attrition, PD ships will run out of energy and no longer be able to do their job effectively while missile/fighter equipped ships SHOULD have a supply ship to reload them. If they don't then it wouldn't matter anyway.
Basically the PD changes make it so a fleet will take very little damage from missiles/fighters for a time if they have a few ships to screen, but then get hit hard when energy runs out.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-08-19 22:00
Also keep in mind that a ship using its beams for PD is a ship not firing them at the enemy.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-08-20 19:58
Side note:
The new Tier 3 missiles only Capital ships might want to PD those.
If your are in a destroyer its better to just dodge them. why? due to that the blast radius and AOE damage is so awsome that a PD's missile will still hurt you.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-08-21 13:37
doesnt that undercut the whole point to picket dessies? theyre there to defend the larger ships from missiles, so if the missiles are hurting them from being PDd...
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-08-21 17:02
My ED blows away entire volleys from Support Stations.
I think PD's pretty powerful now, o lawld. A single ED can stop any amount of fighter spam, I bet.
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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2010-08-21 20:39
Yeah, my worries are with the new ship configurations and not the existing ones. I'm not concerned about the improved PD, only the combination of new missiles + fewer missile launchers + PD in any form.
I'll need to see the new cruisers and dread refits in action to put this nagging feeling to rest. They'll be coming soon enough. 
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mandalore river
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: July 22, 2010
Posts: 95
From: port angeles, washington, earth, sol, milkyway
| Posted: 2010-08-21 22:46
i often use a missle cruiser and was thinking the same thing
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warlord 1050
Admiral
Joined: April 05, 2006
Posts: 19
| Posted: 2010-08-22 06:52
missiles are now too weak on smaller crafts (scout, frig, destroyer) in scenario mode, even if used as support crafts.
point defense is too effective now.
try to hurt a stationary transport or engineer with a missile frig and you will see what happens.
I suggest to give the long range missiles lower signatures, so you need actually need eccm to see them most of the time. (just a suggestion)
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