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Defense ideas |
Malorn
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2003
Posts: 42
From: USA Eastern Time
|  Posted: 2006-02-23 02:43
I've been testing Beta pretty heavily, and I've noticed a couple of things, mostly revolving around planet defense. Thus I felt it might be a good idea to post a couple of issues I noticed, and see what others think of them.
(1) It seems like it is very easy to cap planets. I am aware of the targeting bug between 300-400gu. However, even with that fixed, I worry that it may still be too easy. I had built a planet, sirius 3 in the beta server. It had 10 mark 3 defense bases, with 2 fighter bases, and a sensor base. That planet fell to K'luth bio bombs in under two minutes. And the defense bases were evenly spaced.
I had also gotten it a planetary shield, which didn't seem to stop or effect the bio bombs, not sure if that's a bug. However the main point is, does that add to good gameplay? We had two cruisers, while the enemy had one dread and a heavy transport.
I suspect that, if give time, we would have managed to drive off the enemy. Since the dread was taking damage, and both of us managed to stay just out of range. But, after about 1 minute, 30 seconds, the planet had fallen, and shortly after that our own def bases opened fire on us.
The point I'm trying to make, is not that we lost, but rather that, based on how the battle was going, we stood a decent chance of winning. It's very hard to drive someone away from a planet in under two minutes. I have noticed this with my own attempts to take planets. I either cannot get one bomb through, or I have the planet at it's knees in a very short time. Perhaps we could consider reducing the power of all our bombs, or in some way increase the durability of a planet?
These are planets, they would take a large amount of time to subdue, especially one with a high level of technological and military development. I'm not demanding that something be done, but I am rather interested in what others think. Would the game benefit from longer planet sieges? In which even when bombs could get through, it would take time to bomb a planet back to the stone age.
This would also help the MV, mainly because as it stood the last time I played, capping a planet meant very little, because it was so easy. The attackers hadn't worked all that hard to get it, and the defenders knew that it wouldn't be that hard to recapture. They only mattered in that it allowed you to build up SY and depots.
This would also help prevent planet rushes, where one side that happens to have a lot of people takes over three or four systems in only a little time. If it took more time, the faction being attacked might have time to rally and defend itself.
(2) I've also noticed that power and workers tend to be used for the wrong things. Would it be possible to add some code so that power and workers went to the most important things first? Rather then leaving defense bases unpowered and powerplants unstaffed, while keeping the starport and the mines working. A SY for instance, wouldn't need power or labor when the planet is under attack, since it can't do any good anyway.
I really hate seeing planets fall just because the enemy got one powerplant or dome. When it has enough power and labor to keep the vitals still working. But no, the mines must stay open, even though the planet is about to be bombed. After, do people really spend time mining and building ships when the planet is under attack?
Anyway, just was wondering if anybody else felt this way, or is it just me?
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2006-02-23 09:55
Quote:
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On 2006-02-23 02:43, Malorn wrote:
I had also gotten it a planetary shield, which didn't seem to stop or effect the bio bombs, not sure if that's a bug.
(2) I've also noticed that power and workers tend to be used for the wrong things. Would it be possible to add some code so that power and workers went to the most important things first? Rather then leaving defense bases unpowered and powerplants unstaffed, while keeping the starport and the mines working. A SY for instance, wouldn't need power or labor when the planet is under attack, since it can't do any good anyway.
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not a bug, bio's have gone right thru shields as long as ive been around
you can turn buildings on and off manually you know. you'll often see players turrning off shipyards(especially) and some def after capturing a bombed planet to free up workers and power for farms and barracks to get the planet back in working order. and a good reason that things like mines stay on is because the have lower worker and power requirements
its never going to be fully automated, the player's going to have to do some work at some point
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-23 11:08
Mirvs and Bio's do insane damage to infantry and population still, which sucks. In my opinion, this damage needs to be lessened, and Bio's need to hit shields.
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Sayin Crowe
1st Rear Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 06, 2005
Posts: 75
From: Clinton, MO
| Posted: 2006-02-23 11:46
Quote:
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On 2006-02-23 11:08, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Mirvs and Bio's do insane damage to infantry and population still, which sucks. In my opinion, this damage needs to be lessened, and Bio's need to hit shields.
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well backslash, you must remimber, kluth weaponry is ment to do outstanding damage to others simply because it makes up for their combat disability. plus, from what i remimber, bios were always the most powerful biological weaponry in the game.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-23 16:53
Quote:
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On 2006-02-23 11:46, Sayin57 wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-02-23 11:08, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Mirvs and Bio's do insane damage to infantry and population still, which sucks. In my opinion, this damage needs to be lessened, and Bio's need to hit shields.
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well backslash, you must remimber, kluth weaponry is ment to do outstanding damage to others simply because it makes up for their combat disability. plus, from what i remimber, bios were always the most powerful biological weaponry in the game.
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Yes, but not in planet taking. If you actually played the game here, you'd realise that bombs that do insanely high damage are NOT a good idea. You're also making no sense. They have oustanding damage, to make up for their combat disability... What disability? They can cloak, they have auto hull repair, fast regen armour, weapons that do a lot of damage... There's not much disability there unless you're on about the weak armour, and you don't really notice that if you're customed to their play stile.
And if you knew what you where talking about, Bio's where never the most powerfull bombs in the game. Back before 1.481, Mirvs where always used because they oblitorated the planet. Kluth actually get less prestige from bombing because all it does is kill inf and population.
And as Tael has said time and time again. K'luth aren't a bombing faction. They're built for combat, and that's what they do very well.
Strong bio and mirvs = NO NO. 1.483 is enough proof of that. I hope that mirv and bio infantry and population damage gets reduced, aswell as bio's hitting shields (and neutrons). That would make bombing a lot harder, like we want.
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Malorn
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2003
Posts: 42
From: USA Eastern Time
| Posted: 2006-02-23 20:52
Cripe, you guys are vicious little buggers. I was just throwing stuff out that bothered me. I knew that a player could turn off buildings, I even know that lower requirements is what keeps mines and such on. I was, to put it simply, saying that such things don't make much sense, from either a realistic point of view, or from a gaming stance.
It seems that the forums have gotten a bit more cutthroat since the last time I was active. Doran, this was not just a complaint post, I'm not ranting at the devs, nor was I even angry in the slightest. There is a very good reason I didn't post this under bug reports, mainly that, I am not saying it's a bug. I am just attempting to bring several issues, that *I* think detract from the game, to F's attention, and the community’s attention.
What F or the community decide to do about what I think, is up to them. F made the game, he's allowed to do whatever the heck he wants with it. I just, as a player, was giving my viewpoint. Now I am increasingly getting the feeling that people don't read through posts anymore. They just read the top paragraph and skim the rest.
@Doran - If you think my ideas would not help Darkspace's gameplay, that's fine. Please say that, if it's what you think, and feel free to explain why you think the idea doesn't work. But please do not treat my post as a complaint, or as a newbie rant, because it was not, is not, and I have no intentions of making it one.
[ This Message was edited by: Malorn on 2006-02-23 20:55 ]
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Lord DowneyBUM (UK)
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 13, 2003
Posts: 437
From: London England
| Posted: 2006-02-24 04:16
agree with the principle that kluth are not designed to bomb, however please remember that we can carry only 15 bios in our clav,
other factions rack up that many in a single bay.
15 bombs have far greater chance of getting taken out by def, than the 40 plus that uggies and iccies drop. And i am not even going into cloud bombing.
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Malorn
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2003
Posts: 42
From: USA Eastern Time
| Posted: 2006-02-24 10:46
True, but bio bombs, judging from what I've watched them do, are the nastiest bomb. First off, they go through shields, thus making that entire icc defense useless. Second, it doesn't matter where they hit the planet they still reduce pop. You can bomb the backside where the defenses are weaker and cripple the planet, then go bomb the inf. And boom, planet's yours.
Plus they give you more useful planet when you've taken it. All the buildings are intact, you guys can just move in and set up shop. Neutron bombs seem to work the same way, or at least somewhat the same. (Haven't managed to test them myself.)
Also, both Jack and I have spoken of reducing the power of all bombs, not just K'luth bio bombs. Personally, I'd like bio bombs to be affected by planetary shields, that's the only change that I think should be made to them separately. I am really hoping that F or Tael takes some time to gather player opinions on bombs and such. (Please note that I don't know if they have already, or who would be the one to do that. Malorn <==== out of the loop for the past year or so.)
It seems that most people are so worried about a change that might nerf their faction that they don't take time to think about how it really should be. More disturbing to me, is the reasons I'm starting to see that would explain why folks are worried.
Please, people, let's try to approach the game with the idea of making the sides balanced, rather then making sure our faction is the most powerful. I understand that players are more likely to post concerning the problems they run into while playing. I myself am no better in that respect, my posts show that. But please, please, try to look at issues other factions have with some signs of trying to see their point of view.
Remember, the game's only fun when you have people to play against, and they won't play, if they hate the way the game works for them.
On that note, I shall spend some time putting together how I currently see the various faction strength levels. To be posted in a different thread.
@Jack if you want to put together something like that for UGTO, that would help a lot, I don't know much about them, but I noticed that the EAD problem you showed me should be considered.
[ This Message was edited by: Malorn on 2006-02-24 10:47 ]
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Malorn
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2003
Posts: 42
From: USA Eastern Time
| Posted: 2006-02-24 11:52
Update on defenses testing, managed to take out a fully defended UGTO planet with a single transport and lots of troops. That really bothers me, since it was the wimpy transport, too. Note that there were no other players on other side, so that made my job easier. But I really don't think it should be possible for a single player to be able to take out a planet at all.
Note: Those of you wanting to know just how I managed to take out a planet with only inf, please feel free to PM me, I'd be glad to explain it. As it was, it took a huge amount of inf, something like 89 or something. (Kept losing inf to PD) Anyway, managed to bring down the power, and then mass dropped inf to take the planet.
I really should not be able to do that. The planet's missiles and fighters couldn't even hit me, at all. Never even scratched the paint on the hull. I almost ran into the planet eight times due to lag though, so perhaps they served some defensive purpose.
The planet did shoot me with a couple of beam attacks, but those bounced off my, rather useless, shields. Much as I enjoyed the pres gained by taking a planet, I really would like this looked at, since someone's just going to take it right back as soon as I turn around. 
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-24 14:45
Yeh, I can see Advanced Carriers being abused again to take planets at this rate 
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Malorn
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2003
Posts: 42
From: USA Eastern Time
| Posted: 2006-02-25 00:45
Oh it's worse then that, this was an ICC transport. I didn't even have bombs.
[ This Message was edited by: Malorn on 2006-02-25 00:45 ]
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