| Author |
Don't make it impossible to solo bomb please... |
Hellaciouss
Vice Admiral
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 22
|  Posted: 2006-02-16 13:53
The faction with very low population compared to the other two would become impossible to bomb planets cept 1-2 times a day for an hour or two. Most of the time I log into Kluth it's just me or a newbie cept maybe once or twice a day for an hour or two at a time there may be 4-5 people most times for those 2 hours or so.
Also, kluth def is too powerful for it's own good....you don't even have to get close to the planet to destroy it and with the longer then heck recharge for their def, 60%+ of the bombs still make it in EASILY without you even needed to get 1k gu in.
And is it just me or are the UGTO def a bit too powerful and faster firing then the Kluth. UGTO are by far the hardest planets to bomb imo which shouldn't be the case...ICC should be hardest to bomb, cept the only part hard about bombing ICC is the 50% chance you have lagging into the planet.
To me the only faction with decent planet def from bombing the the UGTO. Their lasers have awsome damage and good recharge, while the Kluth and ICC are the easiest to get by. Like I said, you don't evenhave to get close to kluth and the only hard part about bombing icc is hoping the server doesn't hiccup and you crash into planet.
They should be hard to bomb solo but not impossible. Right now 2/3 factions though are a joke in planet def vs bombing.
this is my point of view as kluth.
[ This Message was edited by: Ase on 2006-02-16 13:56 ]
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2006-02-16 14:33
I dont agree...Make it harder to bomb, make it a challenge again...Alot of new players simply just bomb their way to ranks, and if it was kept as it is now in release, it'd be just boring... This will create a good way to organize a fleet, and make the game more combat focused....483 has been basicaly which faction could mirv the most..Now it's going to be who functions best as a squad..and from playing all factions, I believe K'luth will be strong in that area.
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Hellaciouss
Vice Admiral
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 22
| Posted: 2006-02-16 14:56
so only a fleet should be able to do anything, is that what you're saying? Who cares about the ones who don't want to deal with fleet drama? What about 80% of the time when there is only 1-2 people on for Kluth? Are those people just not allowed to do anything becuase it's will become to hard to bomb solo? Are they just supposed to be the little builders that go around no having fun at your expense and just fix planets becuase that's all there is to do without a fleet on?
I'm sorry, but making it too hard to bomb will only hurt things. Yes this is a team game but when there aren't very many who play you drown out one of the fun things in the game becuase you aren't in a fleet and can't do anything cept rebuild (the non-fun thing) for most people.
I am not saying it is too hard to bomb now, it is pretty easy to bomb now actually, just keep in mind that if you do make it impossible to solo bomb
it's going to hurt the people who don't play when the fleets play.
If there where 100's to 1000's of people playing at a time thn I would say, yah ok, make it nearly impossible for 5 people to bomb a planet but most of the time it's just 1-2 maybe 3 people on for kluth most times. Are they not supposed to be able to do anything cept tiddle their thumbs hoping and praying the other faction will attack them so they can do something?
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Ospolos
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 31, 2004
Posts: 567
From: ON, CANADA
| Posted: 2006-02-16 15:04
Disagreed. It hurts more people right now that bombs are the way they are. It would be best for it to be harder. I know you like to bomb, its one of your best DS qualities, but I'm sure you will be able to work with other players if it's needed to get the job done, more rewarding maybe since its harder, but, the way bombs are in release are a game killer, sorry if you disagree.
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Mersenne Twister
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 11, 2003
Posts: 1161
From: Sector C Test Labs and Contol Facilities
| Posted: 2006-02-16 15:07
solo bombing = no es bueno
lots of pres for bombing = no es bueno
just a few bombs to set back civilization a few milennia = no es bueno
bombing should require a team effort, even if team >= 2, and even then it should take several runs to kick off all the infantry, or unload enough genocide on the poplation that the planet shuts down.
cloud bombing is decreasingly effective as the planet size increases, but with help you can drop a cloud against a .....
you know what, just get someone to fly ecm boats for you, target buildings or inf directly, you'll be fine
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2006-02-16 15:09
Ima put this simply and straight foreward.
Darkspace is a team based game. Based around teamwork, and bombing is no exception. Since 1.483 people have used solo bombing to gain rank and the like exceptionally quickly and also in doing so removing many tactical elements in the game.
Bombing is not supposed to be solo. Combat is not supposed to be solo. Period.
If you want to play solo-me-timbers, go for Eve. Here its about teamwork and cooperation. IN a fleet indeed. And the same for bombing.
After last patch, that is more than proof enough we must, above all else, get rid of solo bombing. Blame those who whored to GA from it and ruined the game for many, for that widespread opinion.
-Ent
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Feralwulf
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 24, 2004
Posts: 1729
From: sitting somewhere drinking beer
| Posted: 2006-02-16 15:19
I have always Solo bombed. Oh I would MUCH rather do it as a team, but I have often found myself in MV with 2 - 10 revolted planets and no one willing to try to recap them........so I solo. In 481 & 482 this was a good bit harder than it is now in 483.
While I would like to see solo bombing remain POSSIBLE I have to agree, it should be much MUCH harder than it currently is in 483.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-16 16:28
Bombing's going dowwwwn.
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Hellaciouss
Vice Admiral
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 22
| Posted: 2006-02-16 17:04
You guys are missing the point. When I am on, mostly I am there alone. No one else on the Kluth, nada, zip, zilch. How am I supposed to get team to go bomb a planet? I can't. I can't do jack cept build someone elses bombing run fun.
If there were more people playing at more times then I wouldn't care how hard you made the planets to bomb, cuase then it would be easy to get a team going, but there is not.
And FYI, EvE is not a solo mans game, but it also has 20k on at once. It is much harder to destroy ships becuase you can only fit so much CPU/Power onto a ship, and if you don't have warp scram you ain't killing anything, which means you HAVE to have a team to kill much anything.
And EvE has the worst character advancment system ever implemented, will never go back to that crap.
DS is a good game but you have to work with what you have. Make it impossible to solo bomb and the Kluth, becuase of their really low population, is going to suffer A LOT. You must consider the numbers you have playing when balancing some things like forcing i to be team only.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-16 17:20
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On 2006-02-16 17:04, Ase wrote:
You guys are missing the point. When I am on, mostly I am there alone. No one else on the Kluth, nada, zip, zilch. How am I supposed to get team to go bomb a planet? I can't. I can't do jack cept build someone elses bombing run fun.
If there were more people playing at more times then I wouldn't care how hard you made the planets to bomb, cuase then it would be easy to get a team going, but there is not.
And FYI, EvE is not a solo mans game, but it also has 20k on at once. It is much harder to destroy ships becuase you can only fit so much CPU/Power onto a ship, and if you don't have warp scram you ain't killing anything, which means you HAVE to have a team to kill much anything.
And EvE has the worst character advancment system ever implemented, will never go back to that crap.
DS is a good game but you have to work with what you have. Make it impossible to solo bomb and the Kluth, becuase of their really low population, is going to suffer A LOT. You must consider the numbers you have playing when balancing some things like forcing i to be team only.
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First rule of development.
NEVER, EVER, EVER Designed a faction/team based on player base. That alone, voids any credit you will ever have. As always, if one team is better than the other, people will all go to that side, it's a natural effect. IF you're the only one on K'luth sometimes, then you'll just have to ignore bombing untill you can pick it up at a later date. There's no other way to explain it really. This is a team game, and you need a team to work. Perhaps, when 1.484 comes out, people might start playing again, and you'll be able to bomb. Unfortunatly though, and I have a feeling Tael and Faustus know this... You cannot, ever, in your life time, or past that, design and impliment a faction/team based on the player base. It simply never works, because as always, the player base fluxuates. Before 1.483, K'luth had more players, all the time infact. It was insanely hard to beat them for most of it. In 1.480, you had PB always on, along with EVIL. Then in 1.481 + 1.482, you had a large amount of people go over to Kluth because of ELF and Flux abuse. They had an unforseen and un-intentional advantage, and it made people think "LOL UGTO SUX, LES GO KLUTH AND PAWN!". It's just K'luths time to take a dink in the player base. Granted, they've always had a few less than the others, but nothing significant. Certainly not experience wise anyway.
As it is, bombing is ruining the game, and it's because people can solo bomb without a problem. DarkSpace was always designed with teamwork in mind, and it's what they're aiming for now, obviously. I can't think of any other way than to say... If you don't like the fact that bombing may require more than 1 person in the future, then DarkSpace may not be for you. Because DarkSpace = team based game, and in team based games, it requires something called teamwork. But like I said above. You can't design a game based on the player base. It never works.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2006-02-16 17:24 ]
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Hellaciouss
Vice Admiral
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 22
| Posted: 2006-02-16 18:31
I never said their shouldn't be teamwork, stop putting words into my mouth to support your case. You have an extreme habit of that Jack and it gets old.
I have infact said I know this is a team game, but when you force people to team when there is no one to team with, there will be a problem with things.
I am in no way asking for an 'only kluth advantage'. I am asking that they take into consideration that to be honest, there aren't that many people playing and a lot of times, for either faction, there will be no one to group with to do these things as a 'fleet' or 'team', regaurdless of which faction has more numbers at the time.
I am asking for it to be very hard to bomb solo, but not impossible, and it should be easier with more people helping.
That is what I am asking for the devs to consider for the next patch/patches.
The way bombing is now, is too easy, YES, It needs to be harder, but not made impossible.
For ICC, the beams and shield are great, they force the player to come close to land bombs, but, thier fighters and missles do not hurt enough. I think to improve this over all, lower the amount of missiles/fighters, but make them much stronger. Less of them would reduce the communication lag from server to pc and back, less lags into planets.
For UGTO, they are the hardest in my opinion, especially vs kluth, which is not a bad thing. You can not just cloud and walk away before the lasers go off, you have to tank atleast one pulse or not enough bombs will get by to do any amount of damage. I think they are fine to be honest. They might need a slightly faster refire time.
For Kluth, like I said, they are too powerful for their own good. I laugh hard when I see people die to them, becuase there is absolutly no reason to get close enough to the planet to get hit by the lasers. They only have time to fire once before bomb hits the planet and 90% of the time enough bombs get through kluth def to still wipe the planet clean. They deffinetly need to be looked at becuase they are by far the easiest to get around.
The absolute nightmare for any bomber is Kluth + ICC def planet. You are lucky to live through it in a dread of any faction, Kluth being the first to be destroyed, which is understand able becuase of the armor.
I ask again, make it very hard to bomb solo, but don't make it impossible.
[ This Message was edited by: Ase on 2006-02-16 18:34 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-16 18:33
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On 2006-02-16 18:31, Ase wrote:
I never said their shouldn't be teamwork, stop putting words into my mouth to support your case. You have an extreme habit of that Jack and it gets old.
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Never said you said it either, so, stop putting words in my mouth. I was simply stating.
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I am in no way asking for an 'only kluth advantage'. I am asking that they take into consideration that to be honest, there aren't that many people playing and a lot of times, for either faction, there will be no one to group with to do these things as a 'fleet' or 'team', regaurdless of which faction has more numbers at the time.
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I didn't say kluth only advantage, I'm just saying, you can't design bombing based off low a player base. That'd be stupid
And, bombing isn't impossible solo, it's actually hard to do like you say. You just actually need to go into beta.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2006-02-16 18:37 ]
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Mad Bum
Grand Admiral
ExtraTerrestrial Space Bums
Joined: March 06, 2004
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2006-02-17 07:40
I am very good at bombing and ive been through a few patches.
Ive tested bombing on beta using only kluth ships atm against icc def 3 planet.
It is just possible to solo bomb the planet but only if the inf are not set to defend.
The balance seems just right i had to stack,cloud and edge bomb the diamond where i had stacked. Then do a few trannie rushes.(with someone defending it would be impossible without a fleet backing you.)
A normal cloud run removes no inf unless they happened to be directly in front of your bombs and on the equator.
The only issue i found is where the planet can see you even at neg sig(-2.5 1200 out) which doesnt bode well for ecm bombing with a fleet.
Good that it requires lots of effort to bomb but bad because you cant ecm bomb.
To ecm bomb atm would require a fleet due to the amout of ecm you can now carry max i think is 3 for kluth though i may be wrong.
Will try out the other factions and against different faction def to see the difference.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-17 09:06
Quote:
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On 2006-02-17 07:40, Mad Bum wrote:
The only issue i found is where the planet can see you even at neg sig(-2.5 1200 out) which doesnt bode well for ecm bombing with a fleet.
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Planets can see dreadnoughts regardless of signature.
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BackAlley
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 203
From: Pittsburgh,Pa. USA
| Posted: 2006-02-17 10:05
Quote:
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On 2006-02-16 15:09, Enterprise wrote:
Ima put this simply and straight foreward.
Darkspace is a team based game. Based around teamwork, and bombing is no exception. Since 1.483 people have used solo bombing to gain rank and the like exceptionally quickly and also in doing so removing many tactical elements in the game.
Bombing is not supposed to be solo. Combat is not supposed to be solo. Period.
If you want to play solo-me-timbers, go for Eve. Here its about teamwork and cooperation. IN a fleet indeed. And the same for bombing.
After last patch, that is more than proof enough we must, above all else, get rid of solo bombing. Blame those who whored to GA from it and ruined the game for many, for that widespread opinion.
-Ent
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