| Author |
@ Those Who Say K'luth Are Nerfed |
Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
|  Posted: 2005-05-14 23:10
You can ram bombs while cloaked. 
Better practice my ECM bombing... 
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2005-05-14 23:11 ]
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tagar
Cadet
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 64
| Posted: 2005-05-16 10:25
umm true but by the time u uncloak, jump to the planet being attacked then recloaked the run has more than likely ended
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-05-17 03:51
Lol you really have no idea. Ignoring ecm bombing, there is no way in hell anyone could bomb a planet defended by two decent luth. You could have 20 people camping a planet, it won't mean jack. It would take a lot even to get by one good luth.
And on not getting there in time: unless it's the first run of a surprise attack, it is piss easy even in release to get to most planets in time. That's what I'm best at....
It would take at least 5 bombers to get some runs in with two skilled luth defending. That's some serious stopping power for only two players.
Of course that's ignoring ecm bombing. with the increase in special mounts, it'll take few ships to drop ecm enough for it. That's why I said, better practice ecm bombing. It'll be all you're going to have.
EDIT: There's fighter bombers also. However can't really look at them yet, from my testing they and nuking look like they'll need an overhaul.
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2005-05-17 03:59 ]
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2005-05-17 21:19
I doubt it's as bleak as you portray.
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Zeritu
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: December 02, 2002
Posts: 264
| Posted: 2005-05-20 22:23
one What Kind of Dtugs are you on and what does running over Bombs Cloaked have todo with the Fire Power of a Faction?
I Suggest you Lay off Them Drugs you are on!
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-05-20 23:52
Haha, lol no I'm not on any drugs, thanks for the concern 
It's just that I was able to stop two bomber cruisers with a bd support with no trouble at all in an engi. So long as I don't uncloak there's really nothing they could do (I put more sensors on to make sure of it).
Firepower is over-rated. The ability to stop bombers/tranny can be a lot more important. For example a week or two ago Zeritu I stopped you and four (five?) other luth in lala alone unsubbed in a tranny, even capping one planet back. Eventually you all gave up and left. Whether you left because of me or not is irrelevant, point is I outlasted.
Thing is, you guys could easily have grabbed a piercer, hive and focused on one planet, would've been nothing I could do. But in beta, even that won't work, since a luth can happily sit at the planet cloaked, ram away and ignore the combats.
So like I said, the only option is ecm bombing, or fighter bombers. Perhaps it's not as bad as it sounds, but I found it un-nervingly easy.
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tagar
Cadet
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 64
| Posted: 2005-05-21 07:31
first off you can have your planet hugging techniques...hmmm u sure your not icc? anyhow what fub is it to hug planets while cloaked and ram bobms? not very, nd the point of this game is to have fun. Kluth has been badly nerfed no matter what you wish to believe, but we will adapt and overcome, then we will more than likely be nerfed again, not becuase our ships are actually uber, but because the hoomans are more vocal(could use whiney here)
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-05-21 09:57
I don't think K'luth have been nerfed. All their ships are easily just as powerful modded as in release. Only stock is not nearly as powerful, but that goes for all factions. Claw is still a dread killer with almost as much firepower as a human cruiser. I go am torps, ruptor in fore and the full mount, rest psi. Real monster, it's still my favourite luth ship
Then, try all psi cannon on a scale. Also don't forget that when sy upgrading comes in we'll actually be able to use lvl8 psi/shredder missiles.
I don't think it's over for luth. I've actually been saying in some respects the new cloak has given you advantage to the point of unfair, such as in cloak ramming. But I'm not screaming for the Nerf Bat. Like I said bombing doesn't look done yet, I'd be expecting more changes and balancing before I would pay to play it (for the record, no, I would not pay to play beta in its current state. But i'm patient). Ramming might not be a problem depending on how ecm/fighter bombers pan out.
Perhaps I should have expanded a bit in my first post, but hey, I went for the assume-they-know-what-you-mean approach
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2005-05-21 09:59 ]
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tagar
Cadet
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 64
| Posted: 2005-05-21 21:40
dude never assume i know what anything means and admitdly i havent had the chance to mod much in beta. no point since i never see anyone there
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Captain Sternn
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 225
| Posted: 2005-05-21 23:38
I doubt he is trying to say it would be fun to play in such a manner, just that it may become an annoying tactic that someone uses when trying to forestall a numerically superior enemy.Such as ICC missile dreads or UGTO N swarms (Im not trying to start any kind of flame war here, bear with me, just what I have observed in MV in the past)
I dont see this being abused as a tactic to epidemic proportions, just because it wouldnt be fun (as much fun i suppose as those that currently load up a ship with flux, or suicide bomb a planet intentionally, no flame again bear with me).As to it being able to hold off a 20 ship fleet, i doubt it.
Taskforces with an interdictor would overcome, you cant be everywhere at once.
Fact is, innovation of the player base is what keeps me coming back to this game, some tactics may become annoying some more than others , but if a computer could come up with ways to annoy me in game like a human oppoenent can (windows based problems aside) I probably wouldnt be here.
There are still balance issues to work out, personally I think ICC have it bad.Shields take way too long to recharge and suck too much juice at a good depot panet my hull can be totally repaired but shields may only be at 20-30 percent, meaning a ship that jumped away from battle to repair at minimal hull would take 3-5 times longer to return to battle than any other faction facing a total repair in simular circumstances.Sure ICC have lots of gadgets and probabiy need a repair premium but 3-5 times is a bit excessive.Having your shields recharging in battle draining power is also something no other faction has to put up with (when anyone says anything about ICC shields they usually hear "wait for level 10 actives...", if their power use is also greater as it currently is in MV, one might be better off without them).Their firing arcs are just plain strange.
Broadsides are a thing of the past when a ships firepower was measured in the number of guns she could broadside, a very long time ago.Since the advent of the turrent (Merrimack vs. Monitor) ships adopted turrents.
Why has nobody said anything about ICC? maybe because hardly anyone plays them consistantly (can't imagine why), sure they try it out, but more often than not they are soon back to their faction of choice.I have to admit I hardly play as ICC in Beta, besides being a constant ICC player in MV in the past, simply because i find them feeble.Perhaps the faction with the more consistant players, in turn are more vocal about their concerns and thus the squeaky wheel gets the oil so to speak.The problems with ICC seem to speak to this.
On the overall game I would like to suggest that main armament weapons be restricted to a very narrow arc, with the ability to be placed into slots on a "ring", that is equally segmented into spaces around the ship, then you could rotate this ring as you manuever with one key to turn it right and one for left (relative to ship orientation), That would allow the player to decide where to place his armament.PD would occupy fixed mounts and would not be included.
Luth have issues too, they are very vulnerable to flux waves, why an organic hull (that was essentially born in space and used to putting up with all kinds of hostile waves) is so vulnerable to a weapon that is designed to damage ship systems is beyond me.
AM torp range is too little by the time you can shoot them your almost inside of the splash zone (an exageration perhaps, I think they arm at about 325gu, and within 125 your gonna get splashed that would leave about 200 gu of effective range...not very effective, numbers could be wrong but they are close).
Disruptors seem weak.
Having the delay in the ability to fire after decloaking (I thought k'luth were supposed to be a first strike race) allows an enemy to get maybe 2 alphas off.
Not sure if UGTO have any real issues (not just ones that would make them more powerful)
Fact is it's still a work in progress and thats why these forums are here.Some people it seems when something is suggested, decry it as a bad idea.Rather than trying to see if there is any merit in the idea alone to warrant a closer look and thus in turn make the game better (Which we all want).Is it better than it was? ...no doubt about it.Can it be better?.....sure.
anyway I tend to prattle on.
[ This Message was edited by: Lothar on 2005-05-22 00:06 ]
[small][ This Message was edited by: Lothar on 2005-05-22 00:26 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: Lothar on 2005-05-22 00:48 ]
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-05-22 08:04
Reactive Shields repair 30% faster in % than armour (at lvl8). However shields I think are still weaker than armour, so there's a good chance the points per second is equal. That is very poor, considering they also cost a lot of energy, plus you can't use depots. The only benefit to them is that you can rotate. Should fit on lvl0 actives though and test them next to armour.
In fact I found shields most effective turned off, and only turning on an arc when the armour there fails (or with the AC, only on at aft). You can still rotate from shields that are off, so they make an effective shield store. Then I turn all the shields back on after the combat is over. This way you have the energy you need during the most heated part of the combat.
Firing arcs, IMO are fine. On ships like the ac, you have to replace most of the beams with rails, otherwise you run out of energy.
Flux isn't really a problem. Armour is so strong that it's a lot harder to get an effective hit. Still a flux at close range takes half off a lvl8 organic. But I don't see it being an issue.
It wouldn't matter if torps had longer ranges, since they don't track anymore. So unless you're shooting a station, there's little difference to their effective range.
Disruptors are indeed weak, for their range/energy cost.
Fire delay is too long. Seems you take several seconds to decloak (and are visible), then you gotta wait a second to fire.
UGTO are fine. However i'm pretty peeved about the total wrecking of the assault dessy. Now it has only 3 torps, but they are 1 fore, 1 left, 1 right. That is the worst arcs of any ship i've seen in beta. Even the luth dessies, with all fore torps are far better off. I suck no matter which arc I've got the enemy in. Since the torps are useless, I may as well hop in a picket dessy which has more standard mounts, better arcs and better armour.
On another note, I don't think pulse should be in standard mount. I'd like to see them as being restricted to the new ICC pd ship (can't remember its name). A few pulse just covering all the arcs too easily nerfs a missile ship. The way it is now missiles will be just as used in beta as they are in release... Getting rid of pulse also gives more reason to actually use beams, and makes that ship rather useful in fleet engagements or bombing.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-05-22 11:08
You can get more armour per plate than any other faction via rotating. A very powerfull advantage.
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Captain Sternn
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 225
| Posted: 2005-05-22 12:41
If you compare actual combat time through the factions a kluth or ugto ship of equal size and equal damage, repairing at a depot planet can return to combat much faster than an ICC equivelant.Depots repair armour and hull, while the ICC ship has to wait on shield recharge before it is fully combat ready.
I'm not saying that rotating shields isn't an advantage just that it isn't enough of an advantage to make up for the disparity between recharge and repair rates.
Perhaps depots could help to recharge the shields a bit by transferring energy so to speak, not enough to make them Par as armour repair but a bit would be helpful.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-05-25 08:22
Jack you can't fight with lvl8 reactive shields on in a dessy/cruiser. You have to turn as many off as you can, then wait till after to repair. Basically think of it like this: It's like fighting as ugto without any sups or depots around, but you have the overhead of having to manage shields. Plus it costs so much energy that a fully modded AC with all reactor and PFE can only go 10gu before losing energy, so you can't fight with it on.
Unless active have a much higher repair rate, far lower repair cost and low standby cost, you can really only use them by the method I described above, which is rather difficult. You're managing at the same time not only turning shields, but which are on. And trying to keep your energy up.
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Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
| Posted: 2005-05-25 09:41
i think you should be able to fire as soon as you hit the uncloak key and it should take time to recloak (and be unable to fire while recloaking)
i tend to think that ICC ship are good all round but there is the problem with turn around... i can run to a depo planet and get fixed up in no time as luth but in a like class ICC ship the damage takes more time to "fix" do to the depos not rechargeing the shields... i dont think the depos should fix you shields though... i think that there should be a new depo type that recharges your shields...
on the topic of depos... there needs to be a limate on the number of depos you can put on a planet... ever have 4+ ships chaceing a ship around a depo planet and you are unable to kill him? well we have in the beta 2 dreads and 2 of the new stations go up against 1 ICC support station... he was in orbit around a depo planet and was unkillable... (we tryed for over an hour)... when we were at max fire power we had 2 ead and 2 AS... the lowest we got the hull was 74% and that was by fireing all our super guns at the same time (and fireing all our long range wepons nonstop)... by the time the guns recharged his hull was 100% again... the only "safe spot" should be in "deep space" (+6000gu from the nearest planet)...
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