| Author |
ugto interceptor cruiser/icc light cruiser, and icc sniper frigate |
Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
|  Posted: 2014-01-14 03:04
ok first i wanna talk about the ugto interceptor cruiser and icc light cruiser in many way these ships are similar but both are underpowered. They both have arcs which allow all 6 of their heavy guns to fire but at this time on DS tht is not enough for a raw combat ship and feels unfair to new players. for example the icc heavy cruiser fires broadside 3 heavy and 2 regular cannons equal to 4 heavy guns and is only 2 less than light cruiser. but also fires 8 torpedoes at same time. The ugto battle cruiser has a similar advantage over its interceptor cousin. i under stand battle and heavy cruiser are tier 2 and are supposed to possess firepower to take on dreds, however the tier 1 interceptor and light cruiser in my experience struggle to keep up in a battle agaisnt other cruisers and even som destroyers. Even down to their firing arcs it appears that the interceptor is cruiser version of the battle dred and light cruiser is the cruiser version of the combat dred they would become far more relevant if they were a scaled down version of the dreadnoughts. for example the icc combat dred has 10 heavy railguns and 2 ion cannons, the scaled down cruiser version could have 10 regular railguns and 1 ion cannon with the same firing arcs, same would apply for the ugto interceptor cruiser. In my opinion this would help them to compete with other cruiser such as its kluth counterpart which works far better due to its 7 heavy and 2 light guns. Please consider this not for me but for the new players and lower rank players that deserve to be able to keep up with everyone else.
my understanding is tier 1 is supposed to be ships with 1 main ability, tier 2 ships hav 2 abilitys but som sort of slightly negative tradeoff and tier 3 are ships with 3 or mor abilitys without the tradeoff due to their difficulty to obtain, tht leads me into my next subject. recentlly i got the sniper frigate which is my first tier 3 ship and i was quite disapointed. Now to be clear i am not saying it is a bad ship because it is quite good for a frigate. the problem with it is it already exists. the M line frigate is exactly the same ship, the only difference at all is instead of 2 ecms it has 5. When in use the sniper frigate feels exactly the same as the m line frigate. The difference is supposed to be the ability to stay hidden with the 3 extra ecms while attacking but because its a frigate its energy is quite limited and is not possible to manage it in a way that allows you to use the ecms during battle for more than a few moments. The next problem i have with the sniper frigate is it has not lost the negative tradeoffs of the tier 2 ship it was copied from. It is called the "Sniper Frigate" but ironically it has no forward guns at all, its 3 heavy gauss guns are side fire only, that in itself is quite a drawback but to add insult to injury its only unit of armor is mounted forward which rarely faces the enemy due to its complete lack of forward guns. Now as mentioned before the m line frigate is exactly the same way and for a tier 2 ship that makes perfect sense and it is expected to have some sort of negative drawback as they all do. Why have these drawbacks been copied onto a tier 3 ship? Why has a ship been copied to begin with? I was told the tier 3 ships were created to be unique and superior to the others in its ship category as a kind of reward for the dedicated players that put the extra effort into getting the required badges and prestige . The tier 3 "Sniper Frigate" offers little if any incentive for a player to work towards due to its identical twin. For me personally i looked forward to the tier 3 sniper frigate ship for a long time and tried harder to get it thinking it would be like the mline frigate without the negative drawbacks. Instead i was very disapointed to find that the tier 3 sniper frigate was an exact copy of the tier 2 mline frigate with the negative drawbacks intact only with 3 ecms added. It would take minimal effort to alter the sniper frigate into the tier 3 role it was meant for. For example i propose it loses its ackward side firing gauss guns completeley and instead has a single forward ion cannon. tht would give it the unique quality expected in a tier 3 ship while also helping to address the energy problems by converting 3 guns into 1 without losing or gaining any significant firepower, allowing it to use its ecms the way it was meant to. Such a small change would dramatically and instantly fix the negative drawbacks that do not belong in the tier 3 category of ships.
the changes i propose are only one persons opinion but would benefit darkspace as a whole and that is what we all want, a better Darkspace for all, thanks if u read this far
Jason
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Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 184
From: home planet: Exathra
| Posted: 2014-01-14 03:56
+1 what he said, as to the 'light cruiser' it feels more like a medium cruiser, perhaps adding something in place of the ecm module , like a single v-torp or another reactor or a single aft mine launcher.......idk just something and change the name to medium, as for the term 'light' it should be like the border cruiser w/o the ecm suites........
just my 5 creds worth (inflation strikes here too)
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2014-01-14 04:25
I see the sniper frigate as an ewar ship primarily meant for hiding friendlies or lighting up enemies with the added bonus of being able to fire once in a while. It simply does not have the energy to use more than 2 of its roles at a time.
A sniper frigate that only had forward firing ion cannons (no missiles or gauss) with local ecm would be much nicer and better represent the "sniper" designation, but does not quite work with the tier system unless you break the rules like on the agincourt and make it cannon/cannon/ewar.
If you give the light cruiser broadside ion cannons it could easily be the best cruiser on ICC, certainly better than the heavy cruiser, and I'm not sure that does a good job incentivizing rank ups. Although, the combat dread is one of the best dreads ICC has and it only requires Captain so I guess that has already happened.
Speaking of which Ion Cannons on the strike carrier would also significantly improve the ship. Isn't it a little bit silly that the best weapon ICC has can only be found on 2 ships in very limited quantities? Putting it on ICC's tier 3 dread makes sense.
In terms of overall ship design I love the ships that are truly unique, and I think we need more. The jump cruiser is a great example of this, a bomber cruiser with a wormhole drive and an AOE effect that slows down enemies? Awesome and unique! A different set of permutations of cannons/missiles/torpedoes for every hull level? Boring. The proposed(but scrapped) storm cruiser was also awesome and unique. A ship with full frontal beams, a ridiculous amount of shields and armor, and an overdrive that let it close the gap in tactical situation? Unique and awesome! Without the overdrive? Boring and predictable.
There are lots of other ideas you can come up with for ships with unique flairs for each faction. Such as an extended operations/long range cruiser that comes with a scaled down damage control and extra ammo/fuel. A ship able to extend its shields around friendlies. An escort ship with an improved pulse shield capable of firing multiple times or over a longer range or with a quicker recharge. A scout with a "blink" drive that can instantly move it short distances. A missile ship with a large amount of missiles that target a random target within range with poor accuracy. A ship that can maintain full energy production at max speed. A ship with a detachable saucer section. A ship that can summon gaifens to fight for you a la antlions in half life 2(lol). Some of these are ridiculous, I know. But my point is unique ships with special abilities would make things a lot less dull.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2014-01-14 11:24
PD beams are back to firing at other ships even when set to PD mode.
T1 cannon ships are straight up inferior to dual role ships, especially for ICC. If a ship is designed to attack smaller ships but has to be at close range to hit them, yet can't get into close range because of lower speed unless the other person either makes a mistake or gets into close range themselves because they know they have the advantage due to ICC's weak cannon damage output what is even the point in having ships like that? Light Cruiser vs. Gunboat and the Gunboat will win handily, throw in a couple EMP cannons to add insult to certain death. A Shell has a good chance of winning, moreso if it's using chit.
I was also unimpressed with the Sniper Frigate overall. Sure it's easily able to go at half speed with ECM active while firing missiles, but as soon as you start firing cannons your energy goes down rather quickly. I don't really have a problem with side facing cannons as it means you can circle your target and still fire cannons at them.....but you'd either be doing that without ECM or hardly firing the cannons to conserve your limited energy pool. The only real advantage the Sniper Frigate has lies in the extra 3 AOE ECM, if you're operating with Destroyers or Carrier Cruisers at least you can help hide them while providing some fire support.
The Mauler can mount a few ELF torps and have no energy issues moving at almost max speed under ECM while firing provided it's not constantly missing with the ELF torps. It also has the highest damage output and most overall usefulness of the T3 Frigates as it can use it's ECM to help any allies while staying in firing range of it's own weapons and not be almost forced into only covering other missile ships or Carriers.
In my opinion the Peregrine is straight up inferior compared to the ICC and Kluth T3 Frigates due to the total lack of ECM because of the beam role it was given. Mixing beams and torps on a Frigate means you're either suicidal to use it or don't mind staying out of beam range thus wasting part of your firepower, in which case you'd be better off using the T2 cannon/torp Osprey, which DOES have ECM and would allow you to at least get into firing range undetected. The Osprey is also more energy efficient even while using ECM unless the Peregrine is staying outside of beam range. The Peregrine wouldn't be so bad for attacking other Frigates if it wasn't for the obscenely large "lol you just killed yourself with splash" AOE radius of UGTO Torpedoes, it's extremely hard to stay in optimal beam range without also FFing yourself with the torps.
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