| Author |
Revolutionary Cloak |
Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
|  Posted: 2010-08-14 04:01
I was just reading the K'luth feedback thread, and read about the proposal to introduce a cloaking timer. This actually gave me an idea about how the cloak could be balanced, within current game mechanics. Basically we change the cloak into a shield. When active, the ship is cloaked and the shield is active. Since the cloak is effectively a shield it will be the outer armour. If the ship gets hit it loses strength, and if it reaches zero the cloak turns off. The shield strength is weak, but with a fast recharge. The ship can't engage the cloak again until it reaches 100% (or 50%, however it is chosen).
This does give the K'luth ship slightly better defences when cloaked, however this is completely made up for by the fact that ICC and UGTO can now effectively strip a K'luth of their cloak. The cloak basically becomes a first strike tool, and not so much a godlike escape button. You can still cloak in combat (damage won't drain the shield when cloak is inactive, as with normal shields), but you need to make sure you're not taking too much fire when you do.
The main benefit is that you are able, if you wish, to safely decouple cloaking from signature mechanics (make cloak time dependant only on mass not sig, stopping eccm pinging and sensor plat farms) and make other changes. You could turn beacons into area of effect EMP bombs which drain the cloak. Add a sensor class module (swappable with eccm) that fires a smaller, weaker version of the same charge.
Cloaking right now ties too strongly into signature, it's very messy and not very easy to change. This would give far more flexibility for devs to adjust how cloaks are used in combat and outside it. It would be a big change to how K'luth would play - less safe flying alone, not able to fly into enemies without caution. They'd be forced like ICC and UGTO to fly together, but would have a highly strengthened first strike ability. It would also be more intuitive - if star trek taught us anything, it was that cloaks can be disabled from concentrated fire.
Since it's tied to a shield strength, you could just make it weaker for a particular ship if you feel it's too strong. Or maybe make some ships have much stronger cloaks, make something like the Parasite more useful. It will address the biggest complaint about the K'luth - that their cloak is too good an escape tool, not just for first strikes.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2010-08-14 04:25
This is one of the best ideas thought out in the name of DarkSpace!
I second this cloak mechanism suggestion!
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2010-08-14 04:54
Love the idea and thought that you getting the idea from star trek was funny
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Mint Ice Cream[+R]
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 05, 2009
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2010-08-14 05:44
I like this idea ^-^ but if devs really add this plz don't make it a shield version of organic armor -.-!! and don't increase the e draining rate plz...
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Subtilizer
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: February 20, 2010
Posts: 122
| Posted: 2010-08-14 06:05
I personally dont think its a good idea most on the icc and ugto side of them , how would they fare without being able to ping and detect us? even for a split second at least they would know we are here. what your speaking of sounds like a perfect cloak that takes damage which brings it down. but usually when a kluth player cloaks icc and ugto just target another uncloaked kluth player. so how exactly would this work?
and you call cloak a "godlike escape button" but in all truth if we wanted to escape our jd would be charged already with its "godlike" recharge times.
im not sure how this will rebalance cloak.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2010-08-14 06:32
Thats the whole point storm, humans can no longer detect you, only blindfire trying to hit you with no guidance whatsoever. It solves the problem of mass pings, and fixes cloak superiority during and post-combat times, where cloaking will no longer be able to hide your trail indefinitely.
As for the godlike JD, aren't K'luth meant to hit hard and run/cloak/jump off? The new system would forces K'luth to use their JD more than before.
Ofcourse, K'luth become undetectable, but its not a very big problem considering they are meant to do one or two hard hits and run, and that their ship sizes are larger than human counterparts. K'luth still get to choose whether they can be seen before cloaking or not.
This system, coupled with the soon-to-come no-cloak zone near planets will ensure that K'luth transports cannot tranny rush planets as good as now. They can manage to get near, but will have a hard time cloaking because of crippling fire on the weak armor.
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Mint Ice Cream[+R]
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 05, 2009
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2010-08-14 06:41
so we gonna have a no cloak zone around the planet ._. i was thinking about new building that can disrupt the cloak ._. it better than the no cloak zone since "we luth want to cloak near our planet" ._.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-08-14 06:51
The reason that UGTO and ICC usually just switch is that they currently can't break the cloak. Under this system, a K'luth trying to cloak while being barraged on all sides would have its cloak broken.
Yes it would be harder to find K'luth before they decloak, but this is a good thing. The biggest complaint by the other factions is that K'luth can cloak their way out of most situations (and thus die far less often), the biggest K'luth complaint is how much ECCM stacks up in big fights to make cloak unworkable. This preserves the first strike capability while limiting it's escape usefulness.
The EMP sensor module could be designed to still provide some level of detection without being overpowered. I would like to see it as a targeted area charge (100gu radius?), effectively doing no damage but having a distinctive 'hit' sound against K'luth cloaking shields. The K'luth isn't revealed, but you know they're there (by the sound) and the general area. Because it's effectively a weapon hit, the sound would originate at the enemy ship, allowing a skilled player to give the K'luth a run for their money. They could also call in the beacon ships which can go the extra step in shutting the cloak down.
On that note, UGTO EMP mines might be pretty handy. Set up a wall of EMP mines, and no K'luth can cross it with their cloak intact. How awesome would that be!
EDIT: The no cloak zone could be pretty simple under this system. For the purposes of the planet, you would just have a negative signature. The planet would then fire on you when you get in the normal visible range - and if you're hit enough, you lose the cloak. That way you can still cloak at your own planets, and ones without defence.
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-08-14 06:58 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-08-14 07:21
I like this idea, under the one condition that the cloak recharges regardless of damage being done if its inactive. Kluth isn't a first strike faction - its a hit and run faction. A Kluth ship should be able to recloak even in combat, otherwise it just becomes a sitting duck.
Does that make it basically a timer? Yeah, it does. But I like it. It means that you can decloak a Kluth with enough damage done to it.
I'd say make the threshold at 50% at all ships to recloak, but of course bigger ships take longer to recharge, but conversely, bigger ships also take more damage to decloak.
-Ent
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-08-14 07:56
It is an interesting concept. But the recloak threshold should not be too great. If the recharge rate is fast, then 50% is fine. But even the current ICC Def mode recharge rate takes too long to reach 50%.
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Marius Falix
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 05, 2010
Posts: 268
From: Luyten
| Posted: 2010-08-14 07:59
I like this idea, however suggestion are ment to be made in the beta forums i believe.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-08-14 09:06
The recharge would have to be quick. Enough damage can actually break the cloak before the ship is fully cloaked, and even after that blind firing may do the same.
Consider these situations:
A single K'luth is cloaked, cloak strength at 100%. K'luth deactivates cloak (module deactivates right away but has delay before can fire), fires once, cloaks again without being hit, just the same as current system.
A K'luth ship is tracked down, decloaked and dictored by some UGTO. Cloak module is deactivated and begins recharging while the K'luth takes fire. The K'luth must survive at least until cloak recharges.
Five K'luth engage five UGTO. UGTO focus on the lead dreadnought. More UGTO enter and the K'luth decide to break off. The four not under fire are able to cloak without issue, the one under fire decides not to, as it would be broken before they fully cloak. The K'luth under fire swings around a planet, buying a few seconds without being hit - and engages the cloak. The UGTO commence blind firing and tracking.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2010-08-16 17:31
Do it. Do it now.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-08-16 18:38
single run of toughs
Yer a genius. when a K'Luth tries to cloak and humans shoot it, its shield will continue to take damage and for as long as the humans keep shooting the K'Luth can't hide. It will be forced to Jump out.
Just as the friendly dictor and K'Luth will be Toast forever!
Love the idea..
But i am waiting on a feedback from faustus about WTF to do with this suggestion..
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-08-17 04:19
Very nice idea. If this will be implemented in future, then kluth need to see indicators about cloak charging time and hit points must be realised for each kluth ship's cloak.
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