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Possible way to defeat pinging |
Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
|  Posted: 2010-06-09 05:36
The pinging right now works on a loophole in the signature system that instantly changes when weapons are used or electromagnetic warfare devices are used. The signature of the cloaked ship instantly changes, and the cloak takes time to compensate for it.
My proposition is to change the way cloaked ships have their signature changed. Instead of instant increase of signature, I propose codes to be put in place which checks if the ship is cloaked or not. If it is, then the signature of the ship does not undergo any changes when EMW devices are used. Similarly, when beacons are fired upon the said ship, its signature does not rise. This will be true even when the ship is in the process of cloaking. However, when the ship decloaks, the signature rapidly rises to the threshold level it should be at.
I hope this works. Suggestions welcome.
P.S. - For those of you who were expecting this post 16 hours ago, I apologise, but there have been frequent blackouts here, and I suddenly fell ill some time ago. Sorry.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-06-09 08:40
Quote:
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On 2010-06-09 05:36, Michael Paradox wrote:
The pinging right now works on a loophole in the signature system that instantly changes when weapons are used or electromagnetic warfare devices are used. The signature of the cloaked ship instantly changes, and the cloak takes time to compensate for it.
My proposition is to change the way cloaked ships have their signature changed. Instead of instant increase of signature, I propose codes to be put in place which checks if the ship is cloaked or not. If it is, then the signature of the ship does not undergo any changes when EMW devices are used. Similarly, when beacons are fired upon the said ship, its signature does not rise. This will be true even when the ship is in the process of cloaking. However, when the ship decloaks, the signature rapidly rises to the threshold level it should be at.
I hope this works. Suggestions welcome.
P.S. - For those of you who were expecting this post 16 hours ago, I apologise, but there have been frequent blackouts here, and I suddenly fell ill some time ago. Sorry.
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you want to defeat pinging and Beacons ?
It sour only way to find Kluth, Pinging jsut allow us to see the ships for a second, wich is good enough sometimes, Beacon would be the main way to really fight cloak
I won't say much about pinging since somethign similar is already going somewhere else
BUt beacons Should not changed the way it affects Cloak in any way, They are made to Put a High Signature In the purpose for Cloak to take much more time
I played Kluth, and i beleive Cloak is fine as it is, It make sit balanced the way it is, not Overpowered, a small way to counter it, forces teamwork in, i like them for that
ANother one who want's an EASY button, Perfect cloak. if you get Perfect cloak, then ICC should get Super strong sheilds
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19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2010-06-09 10:24
Quote:
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On 2010-06-09 08:40, Zero28 wrote:
You want to defeat pinging and beacons ?
It's our only way to find K'luth, Pinging just allow us to see the ships for a second, which is good enough sometimes, Beacon would be the main way to really fight cloak.
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2 things...
1) Please, take time while writing your posts. It is not easy to read a post which was made with a hotheaded mind. Please, keep your cool brother, and take your time while writing.
2) The developers can probably place a new code that makes scanners what they should be. This code will detect if there is a cloaked ship within 1000 gus of the source ship. If there is a cloaked ship, then the code forces periodic 'pings', by increasing the signature level of the ship to 3.0, for 2 seconds every 20 seconds. Every extra scanner in the vicinity forces an additional second of positive signature on the cloaked ship. This may make scanners useful for both bombing and combat.
There you go, your anti-cloak device of mass havoc.
P.S. - By point number (1), I mean it. I have seen people who do not take time to arrange their thoughts in a linear fashion, and often suffer from ineffective communication. Please take your time.
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Forging legends and lives outside till naught remains inside.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-06-09 11:48
I fail to see the problem in my words, i see them fine as it is, care to explain?
as for scanner, it might be an idea, thou im not so sure if most kluth player would agree, you basicly jsut switched the pinging system to another devices, and made it to work automatic but there is one problem
Each ships has a certain level based on there hull, wich then modifies the Stats of said device, Best example would be the JD on a corvette and a Dread. ECCM work just the same, the cooldown of a Scout ECCM is much shorter than 1 on a dread
i don't know if the automatic pinging can be instelld and modified with the ships hull, guess thats a dev that can answer that
[ This Message was edited by: Zero28 on 2010-06-09 11:49 ]
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19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2010-06-09 12:28
Mmkay. Point one. Electronic warfare, not electromagnetic. Just a little niggle of mine. EW, not EMW.
As for this "fix": Pinging is a bug that has ascended to become a feature. It's now an intended way to allow ships to spot cloaked k'luth ships, particularly since it's no longer possible to defeat k'luth cloak in many (any?) other ways.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-09 21:16
Beacons were the only way to possibly counter the Kluth cloak, back in the day. Back then you had perfect cloak, you could never get spotted ever until you were decloaking. When you started to cloak you would just vanish, if someone with a beacon was lucky to get a few in THEN they could see you while you were cloaked, and could shoot you. That was perfect cloak with NO counter prier to you actually showing yourself. Ping now allows the humans to spot you, just for a split second but it helps so you know how many luth are commin around your ship. In mass numbers Ping becomes a major issue for Kluth and so dose sig, but when Kluth outnumber you, cloak is too powerful as it is even now. I remember back in my early days of getting one hit poped by a Mandy behind my Combat Dessy or Escort Dessy and losing all the pres I had gotten in that battle. Never should those days come back, the game will lose noobs left and right and it will die off again.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2010-06-09 22:42
@Gejaheline - Thank you, I will keep that in mind.
@Starcommand - I wonder why you are talking of the old days, and why did you not read my second post. In case you are not understanding, I am trying to remove the double strength of the ECCM of slowing down the cloak AND pinging the cloaked ship.
The slowing-down effect stays with the eccm, so you see k'luth longer while they cloak and decloak. The pinging goes to the scanner, and the time period was carefully thought out so as to avoid overpoweredness and underpoweredness, as a whole.
Ofcourse, if this is implemented, there will also be the cooldown system on the scanner, which is nonexistant as of now.
Questions and suggestions welcome.
P.S. - Please, I request people to read each and every post in forums carefully before posting. Being off-topic or off-time is embarrassing to the poster.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-10 02:13
just was telling you what it was like back then so you can better point out ideas.
Scanner is for picking up space objects, not something that is compleatly invisible. Currently Scanner helps increase the Ping range (I think), also it takes 2 ECM to beat every 1 ECCM, because ECCM is the counter to ECM which is the counter to your normal sensors. Should Kluth ships get more ECM on there ships? Yes. All Kluth ships need at least 2 ECM on them. This also brings in issues of its own, as more ECM on a ship the more power its going to take, as it is now, cloaked a krill can go 13gu just fine, Siphon can go about 10-11 with both ECM on.
How to fix this? Theres hundreds of ways to make a cloak counter for the humans, and still give Kluth there hit and run. Issue is how is it going to work, when there are a lot of players on. The game is made and balanced for a lot of players to be on, players the game mostly doesn't have. So something that might be OP when 1v1 or when it outnumbers you, but isn't when there are more players on, is a big issue for this game. It also makes it incredibly difficult to balance with 1 faction that has all cloak and the other factions don't have a way to beat it or have cloak of there own.
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WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
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