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Prestige Gain & Loss |
Smartin
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 1107
From: Michigan
|  Posted: 2006-06-15 07:50
I was talking with a few of the players that have been around for a while and I was told that prestige loss use to be very minimal. Is this true? If so maybe we should think about cutting it down some.
With things being balanced out next patch lets give some incentive to come in combat. I mean whos goign to bring a cruisers if your giong to loose 200 prestige for it? You can barely make 200 prestige in combat as it is considering you get nothing until your inside the players hull.
All I am is saying is that I am sick of playing the game all day long to loose everything I earned b/c someone caught me in a Dread. Doesn't need to be ridiculously low but I wouldn't mind seeing it a bit lower. Will also help newer players grow and gain rank with out loosing everything they earned. Just wondering where everyone else stood on this.
Smartin
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Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-06-15 08:36
The reason was to stretch out combat, with the idea that your ship would stay alive longer, but this doesn't work out really.
Prestige loss does need to be cut back, not to a really low level, but to something lower than what it currently is. Something so that with one kill, you'll be able to pay off that one death, which makes sense. Otherwise there's this massive prestige sink in the game, and the total prestige gained from combat overall will never be possitive.
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YIIMM
Grand Admiral
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 851
From: Barcino, Hispania Tarraconensis
| Posted: 2006-06-15 08:53
I remember about a year ago, Nim said he'd lost 3 bomber cruisers, and was sad to have lost as much as 180 pres.
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GothThug {C?}
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 29, 2005
Posts: 2932
| Posted: 2006-06-15 08:56
i was thinkin something like this
Current Game Pres loss:
Scout=60
Frigate=70
Dessie=100
Cruiser=150
engie=50
Dreads=350
Station=1600+
Thats a bit rediculous however this is what im thinkin about and if you disagree with me fine but it goes something like this
Scout=20
Frigate=50
Dessie=60
Cruiser=80
Engie=30
Dreads=150
Station=350
it may seem like a shot in the dark but why not double that if you Self Destruct in a Dread it could be doubled to 300 or a station 700. like i said its just an idea ^^
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2006-06-15 09:00
Higher Res Lost(RL) was introduced as a major deterent for those who were repeatedly self destructing ships under enemies and gaining prestige through this. It was also introduced to curb suicide bombing or transport rushing, both of which were becoming prevalent within the game.
The Development team felt that this was getting beyond control, and so were forced to take a very close look at how players stats were calculated, and to consider methods of countering such abuse and metagaming.
After close examination, it was revealed that the root cause was the lack of any effective deterent to using these tactics. Players were free to do so with little or no penalty involved.
Arguements were raised for increasing the penalty for self destructing your ship, or adjusting self destruct timers, but any such change would have been easily circumvented by players simple flying into the nearest planet or star.
Another concern was out how rapidly players were able to progress in DarkSpace, and the total longeivity of gameplay for any individual user. there was definately a conscious decision made by the Dev team that they wanted prestige gain in total to be slowed down, and more emphasis to be placed on player skill.
Sanctity of a players profile for playing previous opr current versions of the game also had to be taken into account. One big rule is that under no circumstances should players be punished for playing the game as it is meant to be, and for the acheivements they made through this gameplay. that is something that richard has always made clear in development discussions, and also in public discussions with the general playerbase.
It all came down to the one end result - adjusting how RL is calculated was the simplest and most elegant solution to all of these issues. There would, of necessity, be a one-time adjustment to avery players profile, but no further tinkering would be required. We wanted to adjust the impact on future gamplay, after all, not on how they have played in the past.
If people remember back to when the changed were first made, you will remember that the penatlies were higer. This was in line with the expected balance and power of the ships. Further changes were rapidly made, and penalty was reduced to the current levels.
Given the current gamplay version, the RL might be considered high. It is still possible to gain prestige, and in some cases (bombing) it is far too easy. On balance, more people are gaining prestige. It is only when you get to much higher ranks that prestige gain will slow down dramaticly due to the penalties kicking in. this isn't quite as intended, but it is more of a balance issue as opposed to a problem with the RL calculations.
If you take a look at Beta in its current form, you might notice that it is easier to gain combat prestige. Before 1.483 this was the primary method for prestige gain, and we hope that after the Beta goes live it will takes it's former place, although maybe not to the same extent of its 1.480-1.482 predecessors.
Overall prestige gain should still be lower than in past versions, but it will hopefully also be a far more rewarding and balanced experience for newer players in particular.
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Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-06-15 09:00
Quote:
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On 2006-06-15 08:56, Twisted GothThug *P3* wrote:
Current Game Pres loss:
Scout=60
Frigate=70
Dessie=100
Cruiser=150
engie=50
Dreads=350
Station=1600+
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Those aren't quite right (dreads and cruisers are higher, stations are lower (about 1400)), but you're on the right track.
Quote:
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Scout=20
Frigate=50
Dessie=60
Cruiser=80
Engie=30
Dreads=150
Station=350
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Those don't sit right with me for some reason. In my opinion, and remember that resources lost value is actually tied to the value of the ship. So getting them exactly like that would mean they'd have to change hull values to make them weaker.
The trouble with resources lost, is that if you set it too low, the beginniner ships give almost nothing in the way of loss, but if you set it too high, the dreads, cruisers, and stations all cost way too much to fly. Currently a lot of people are scared to even touch dreads since they lose so much prestige from them.
I still stand by what I said, being that the total combat prestige loss/gain amount should come out possitive, because currently, it's negative, and that's why so many people turn to bombing.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2006-06-15 12:25
Quote:
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On 2006-06-15 09:00, Drafell wrote:
Higher Res Lost(RL) was introduced as ........ |
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i got a question about the prestige calculation.
is there anny where a list about the current stats to prestige multipliers ?
( ok i could strip the prestige calculator apart but i find asking more appropriate.)
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Smartin
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 1107
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2006-06-15 12:28
Quote:
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On 2006-06-15 08:56, Twisted GothThug *P3* wrote:
i was thinkin something like this
Current Game Pres loss:
Scout=60
Frigate=70
Dessie=100
Cruiser=150
engie=50
Dreads=350
Station=1600+
Thats a bit rediculous however this is what im thinkin about and if you disagree with me fine but it goes something like this
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Also remember Goth that in 1.483 a scout is carring around lvl10's witch if I am correct is more prestige lose if you die and in 1.484 with everything being hull based you wont loose as much for smaller ships.
I tried to find Jack's post were he stated the level bases for each ship but got tired of looking but I beleive it was something like this:
Scout - 1
Frig - 2
Dessy - 4
Cruisers - 6
Dread - 8
Assault Dread/Stations - 10
(Sorry if not Exactly Correct, If someone post what they are I will fix these)
So scout through Dessy will actually have a less prestige loss as is where as Cruisers and up with be pretty close to what they are now maybe a little less.
I still think it should be reduced a little bit. Nothing drastic but make it worth fighting. As of Rigth now I do Hate flying dreads due to if I die then I loose such a big amount. The prestige you could make is a lot less then the prestige you coudl loose. Whitch is ok but it needs to be closer to each other. Either make it so you loose less prestige or Earn more for combat.
[ This Message was edited by: Smartin on 2006-06-15 12:29 ]
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Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-06-15 16:57
That was levels Smartin 
@TON3
Bonus Prestige = x 1
Ships Damaged = x 3
Ships Captured = x 15
Planets Damaged = x 1
Planets Captured = x 5
Friendly Fire = x -3
Repair = x 2.5
Construction = x 1
Kaikaze = x 5
Self Destructs = x -10
Jumps = x 0.1
Planet Collisions = x -1
Scout = x 1
Resources Lost = x -0.005
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