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Possible change to Armor and Shields |
Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3697
From: San Francisco Bay Area
|  Posted: 2005-04-08 03:30
The initial concept with the armor was that Organic armor was weaker than Standard and Reflective, but repairs faster and works with Auto Hull Repair and Cloak.
Since major changes would be needed to support changes to the Cloak and AHR, that limitation may not be imposed.
We've toyed with the idea of allowing K'luth to change out their organic for non-organic for loss of cloak... But what we are seeing right now is:
K'Luth have Superiour Fire Power, Cloak, and Comparable Armor when moded to the human armor. Thus unbalanced.
So we are considering changing the Defense slots back to
Armor
Shield
OrganicArmor
The Result would be:
ICC would no longer be able to exchange shields for Armor (while doing so now saves energy costs, they loose shield rotation which allows for more damage absorbtion to any arc).
K'Luth would only be able to mount Organic Armor
Humans have the choice of mounting Standard or Reflective armor.
K'luth have Cloak and AHR. Also, Organic Armor, while having less max hit points, has a faster repair rate than the other Armors.
This returns the balance back and helps keep the races more distinctive. I am waiting to hear back from Faustus before making the code changes unless someone can come up with a really good counter point why we should not make these changes back...
[ This Message was edited by: Tael on 2005-04-08 03:31 ]
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-04-08 04:17
Quote:
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On 2005-04-08 03:30, Tael wrote:
But what we are seeing right now is:
K'Luth have Superiour Fire Power, Cloak, and Comparable Armor when moded to the human armor. Thus unbalanced.
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Truer words were never spoken.
Tael, I wont sit here and claim to know how to fix the kluth. They arent even good for newbie. To be honest I like the Idea of em but I dont think they are even good for the game. I understand that this isnt the time or the place or even constructive.
The only thing I can really add is how about making it harder for them to cloak. Instead of treating cloak like a ON/OFF button to a light switch, could you put some kind of timer or power charge on it?
I dont care how Strong their stupid armor is.. but when they are now able to just get away "free as a bird" after jumping and attacking. I think the Cloak needs to be used with more care, and not like a Light switch.
-Charz
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Griffinhawk
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 20, 2003
Posts: 137
From: Barberton, Ohio
| Posted: 2005-04-08 07:30
if i am not mistaken the cloak does have a time delay the cloak does not take affect for 10 seconds after it has been turned on
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-04-08 08:51
Sounds good Tael!
It would be the simplest way to restore ballance, and if there is issues later on when we properly balance test, tweaks can be made to each faction instead of having to find another way to find balance.
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2005-04-08 12:18
The recloak delay does need to be increased. The original intention (from Gideon I must admit) was for the recloak to be delayed for about 15 seconds minimum from them uncloaking. At this moment in time they can recloak almost immediately - depending on the local area ECCM. I would be in favour of slowing the cloak timer down by about 50% and/or increasing the energy drain of cloak.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-04-08 12:53
A simple way to fix this is having a "mask" property that, depending on hull size, goes from 100 to 0 in a certain amount of time. ECM and ECCM would not effect this property so it would be fair game. When the property hits 0, the ship is successfuly cloaked.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2005-04-08 13:13
What I want to know is why ECM/ECCM affects cloaking speed AT ALL. If ECCM can no longer reveal a cloaked ship, then why does it have any effect? The cloaking speed should be static, and unaffected by ECM/ECCM.
Also, I think it needs to be longer...the original 1.481 design stats had it more like 50 seconds. The idea is that they can either surprise an enemy be decloaking and firing, or they can use it to escape *after* they've fired. They shouldn't be able to fade in and out of cloak, because that leaves their enemy very little time to kill them. The end result is that even with weaker armor, a K'luth dreadnought would be harder to kill than its ICC/UGTO equivalent.
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
| Posted: 2005-04-08 13:53
Ok Tael Remove all armour from Kluth since they are spose tobe fast attack/hit and run but increase hull pts slightly. However remove the timer from the cloak but also make it like it use tobe to where eccm effected the energy on kluth ships when cloaked.
This does 2 things.
1. By having no armour when the kluth decloak they would half to strike fast and hard this would /should Make attacking ships think twice before attacking and promote team play instead rambo style go at it alone.
2.By having Eccm effect cloaked ships "ONLY" it would give planets/ships a chance to actually find there target, and only allow a cloaked ship to stay cloaked for only so long in heavy eccm areas. But keep the weopons huber!!!.
[ This Message was edited by: Beast on 2005-04-08 14:04 ]
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3697
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-04-08 14:11
Quote:
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On 2005-04-08 13:53, Beast wrote:
Ok Tael Remove all armour from Kluth since they are spose tobe fast attack/hit and run but increase hull pts slightly. However remove the timer from the cloak but also make it like it use tobe to where eccm effected the energy on kluth ships when cloaked.
This does 2 things.
1. By having no armour when the kluth decloak they would half to strike fast and hard this would /should Make attacking ships think twice before attacking and promote team play instead rambo style go at it alone.
2.By having Eccm effect cloaked ships "ONLY" it would give planets/ships a chance to actually find there target, and only allow a cloaked ship to stay cloaked for only so long in heavy eccm areas. But keep the weopons huber!!!.
[ This Message was edited by: Beast on 2005-04-08 14:04 ]
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There is something else in mind for giving cloaked Kluth a run for their money...
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Axalon
Vice Admiral
Joined: June 15, 2003
Posts: 442
From: East Windsor, NJ, USA
| Posted: 2005-04-08 15:57
Now, this is all fresh in my mind, and I'm not sure of all the implications, but perhaps a special device like an "anti-cloak" which would temporarily illuminate cloaked ships in the area. I'm thinking a substantial energy drain so It would last only 10-15 seconds. This would give time for the planetary defenses to gain a lock on the enemy and fire. But to keep this balanced, there can only be one on a ship and it should have something of a 5-7 minute recharge.
Not sure if Medusa would support it, but if after an anti-cloak device is used, no other anti-cloak devices can be used within that 1000 gu area, preventing having 6-7 anti-cloak outfitted ships using it in succession.
That's my two cents.
-Axalon
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3697
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-04-09 03:45
The humans dont have such technology...
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-04-09 12:22
I think planets should be able to detect kluth some way...I dont think its going to be fair if they can just come in and drop...but then agian...they have to be uncloaked to bomb, and bombing aint gonna be so easy in 1.483...so it will need a lot more runs or more bombers to hurt a planet (hopefully a lot more, not just 2 runs, drop and cap, a proper long wait...battles over planets, not 5 systems in a day).
So it should be ok....Defending inf should have some sort of bonus anyways  .
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2005-04-12 18:37
onw of most iritating situations when fighting Kluth (even in beta) was and is that they can jump out with 0% hull and laugh because when i finally find them they repaired enough to run completely ...
there should be sort of "heavy damage" which is hard to repair (takes quad longer to repair (ie hp of ship parts are under 25%) and fatal damage (under 10%) .... even i though with huge hull damage should equip gadgets be easily damageable it seems it's not true in case of kluth ...
fine Kluth is tought ... but it should be not close to impossible ...
[ This Message was edited by: Dwarden on 2005-04-12 18:37 ]
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