| Author |
Just for kicks... |
JackSwift
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 30, 2002
Posts: 1806
From: Where the Sun dont Shine (Seattle-ish)
|  Posted: 2004-08-19 19:09
I posted this a while back in the Event Staff forums, then realized that this should go in Dev feedback instead. So uhh... read, if you want. Couldn't hurt. 
So, in that regard, I shall add some ideas that might make Grim's ideas better or at least less work for the players. (Only about the mundane stuff, not the pirate, monster spawning or other stuff... that stuff should be looked at immediately)
-----------
Idea One
-----------
Different Types of Planets:
Perhaps have different specs for different types of planets. Such as:
*Note - the type of world is decided by the colony hub
Farming World
The lifeblood of any system. Farming worlds easily provide the food necessary to keep the other worlds population content and functional.
Hub gives:
Habitat +20
Food +20
Power +10
Research +10
Mining +20
Planetwide Attributes:
- Any farming structure produces double its normal amount.
- Domes and farming structures cost less and use less power/population.
- Population growth rate improved by 50%.
- Defense bases and fighter bases cost 50% more resources to build.
- Planet infantry take a minute longer than normal to produce.
- Chance of revolt against invader's capture is 5% at most (If Grim's pop revolt implemented).
- Farming world starports are resistant to pirate threats, but very susecptible to plagues (if implemented).
- At least 90 minutes to submit to blockade. (If implemented)
Industrial World
These worlds are meant for one thing: fueling the needs of the massive fleets that defend them. The resources and parts required to build and maintain armadas come mostly from these industrialized centers.
Hub gives:
Habitat +10
Food +10
Power +20
Research +10
Mining +30
Planetwide Attributes:
- Mining bases produce twice as much minerals.
- Factories produce items in half the normal time.
- Planet building times are reduced by 1/3.
- The colony hub also acts as a depot.
- Depots heal ships 25% faster.
- Farming structures produce half their normal amount.
- Chance of revolt against invader's capture is 10% at most (If Grim's pop revolt is implemented).
- Industrial world starports are the most susceptible to pirate encroachment and plagues(If implemented).
- At least 60 minutes to submit to blockade. (If implemented)
Research Colony
The nexus of any high tech research operation. The brightest minds in the respective governments gather to these worlds to further their technology. Lovingly called "think tanks" by the general population.
Hub gives:
Habitat +10
Food +10
Power +20
Research +20
Mining +10
Planet Attributes:
- Planet tech starts at 10.
- Tech level is researched 50% faster.
- Labs are cheaper have a +5 bonus to their research. (+10 if I2 implemented)
- Generators have a +10 power output bonus.
- Defense structures (sensors, shields, bases) take twice as much population to operate.
- No chance to revolt against invaders. (If implemented)
- At least 45 minutes to submit to blockade. (If implemented)
Military Stronghold
These worlds are run directly by the military, and therefore much more efficient, yet lack the given freedom to run as anything but a non-civilan world.
Hub gives:
Habitat +15
Food +15
Power +15
Research +15
Mining +10
Planet Attributes:
- Population growth rate reduced by 25%.
- Farming structures can't be built. (If food implemented)
- Resources going to and from the planet are cut in half (would send 1000 metals but other planet would only receive 500).
- Barracks take one minute less to produce troops.
- All military structures (barracks, shields, bases, sensors) use 20% less power and cost 20% less to build.
- Infantry trains 25% faster (From Green to Vet and Vet to Hard, etc.).
- Up to 15% chance to revolt against invaders. (If implemented)
- Negligible chance of pirate encroachment. (If implemented)
- At least 30 minutes to submit to blockade. (If implemented)
------------
Idea Two
------------
Transporting Food/Research Between Planets:
As it is right now, planets can transfer food, but the planets receiving food can't use it to make their population grow. I was thinking along the lines of Master of Orion 2, for example:
A farming world has a habitat of 60, but is producing 200 food. Where does the surplus 140 go? Right now it just stockpiles the food and sends it to other planets, which really does nothing. Now if there was a double planet (Let's say Grice and Twin) cluster, and both of them were 70 population military strongholds, they'd need food from somewhere else. Hmm... where could they get the food required for 140 population...?
In the system screen you could then see the total system food growth and surplus, or lack thereof. Any planets with a starport that needed food would get it, provided there was a surplus. Perhaps even make starving planets a priority and "balance" the food distribution across the system. The amount of food on a planet would then only go up if there was a surplus in the entire system, e.g. If a planet has a population of 70, and it is getting +70 food, there will be NO food in the planet stockpile.
And you thought I forgot to mention the research that was in the title. Well, I did... so uhh, reread Idea Two but replace "farming world" with "research colony" and "food" with "research". And the population with tech level and yada yada yada...
Ok, so in conclusion to Idea Two... this would make other planets rely on each other and therefore allow for greater customization in the DarkSpace servers. It would also make invading forces think twice about which planets to conquer first. Go in an all out battle against a fortress world, or capture all the farming planets and starve the enemy out?
Which brings me to Idea Three...
--------------
Idea Three
--------------
Making Blockades Actually Do Something:
All they do right now, for all intensive purposes, is waste chat space on your screen. Now if Idea Two was implemented, blockading a planet to force them into submission would become a valid, but time consuming, tactic.
How it would work: Planets would become blockaded if the enemy had at least 5 more ships in the vicinity of the planet (2000 gu) than the defenders. Each successive increase in enemy ships would reduce the time it will take to have the planet turn to their side. A planet being blockaded would lose all trade, including imported food for population and research from other planets.
Now, when I say lose, I don't mean INSTAKILL everything like it is now. A change so that the tech level would go down gradually (but still far faster than going up), giving time for people to spawn out of a SY or something before the research disappears. Same for food... the amount of food coming in would drop gradually, as the colonists started eating from the planet's stockpile. If the food runs out, then the colonists start to die out.
Now I know that planets can stockpile an insane amount of resources, so how about either a resource cap or change it so that under a blockade, each colonist that isn't supported by incoming food consumes 1000 food units per tick (when everything else updates, seems like around 20 seconds or so).
There would also be a timer of at least 5 minutes after a planet submitted to a blockade, that 5 enemy ships would have to stay in the vicinity, otherwise the planet would revert back to the original team. These 5 enemy ships used for the blockade must be destroyer class or heavier, to prevent fleets of ecm scouts capping planets. Same thing goes for the defenders: scouts and frigates do not count for breaking the blockade.
I was also thinking about having some sort of bonus for K'luth, if their fleet blockading the planet could be successfully cloaked, then take 5-10 minutes off the capture timer. Fear is a powerful tool which the K'luth should use to their advantage.
Which leads (well, actually is a part of) into Idea Four...
------------
Idea Four
------------
Applicable Racial Bonuses:
I'm not talking about faction tech and planet structures, what we have right now works pretty well. I'm thinking about if all three previous ideas would be implemented, each faction would have their little spin on planet blockading, transporting resources and planet stats. So, the prototype bonuses are as follows:
UGTO:
- All planets get a +5% chance to revolt against invasion, even research colonies.
- Depots and reloads repair armor 10% faster.
- Infantry take 30 seconds less to train.
- Planets receive a -5 penalty to research. Penalty is higher for research hubs. Cannot lower a planet's research below 10.
ICC:
- When invading UGTO planets, negates 5% revolt bonus.
- Ships can tap into planetary shield generators to replenish shield strength (But will drain the shield gen's power quickly, so be careful about using it if you're being bombed).
- If planet has a working shield gen, reduces the damage to infantry by 25% from bio bombs.
- ICC starports are more susceptable to pirates, but more resistant to plagues.
K'luth:
- If a planet is underpowered, K'luth population can provide 2 power per person, using their psionic energies to tap into and fuel the planetary power grid. This ability only lasts for 15 minutes and has a cooldown timer of 15 minutes (takes 15 minutes for ability to be used again).
- Successfully cloaking all ships during a blockade reduces the capture timer by 5-10 minutes. (Same as end of idea three thingy)
- K'luth starports are more susceptable to plague, but more resistant to pirates.
*Edit* Ok, supposedly done... but well, there's probly a lot of holes. Guess I should copy/paste this over to the Dev Feedback, eh?
*Edit after putting in Dev feedback* I now realize some of Grim ideas aren't present... so pretty much his ideas for plagues and pirates, you can use your imagination.
_________________
The only thing I know is that I know nothing. -Socrates
[ This Message was edited by: JackSwift on 2004-08-19 19:21 ]
_________________
(too lazy to rehost that old sig)
\"Errare Human Est.\"
|
Sardaukar
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 1656
| Posted: 2004-08-19 19:26
Heh. Idea One reminds me of MOO2... but all around, NICE. Might add my two cents.... Transportable Colonists/Citizens/Refugees.
Colonists- come from systems lacking a capital hub (a tentative concept itself), are more likely to revolt, but provide a slight increase in all production as a result of their effort to survive.
Citizens- come from systems with capital hubs, standard population. Offer an increase in taxation income.
Refugees- come from besieged worlds/systems. Players recieve a penalty to their diplomatic prestiges for destroying transports with refugees in them. Players also recieve penalties for carrying infantry while they carry refugees. Refugees who are taken to a colony that houses an infantry production center have a 25% probability to become Patriotic Infantry. Patriotic Infantry (name obviously tentative) behave as standard infantry, but have a 50% increase in combat ability in their home system and a 100% combat increase on their homeworld.
All population-types can only be carried on Transports, for obvious reasons. Ships carrying Refugees acquire a scarlet tint or scarlet stripes to signify diplomatic status. Note- there is NO penalty for destroying an empty transport, to add to the blockade feel by preventing citizen rescue.
_________________
."Strange game. The only winning move is not to play." - W.O.P.R.
[small][ This Message was edited by: Sardaukar on 2004-08-19 19:29 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: Sardaukar on 2004-08-19 19:34 ]
_________________
|
_x$witchBladex_ [1.480 Fanboy]
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 26, 2003
Posts: 849
From: Upstate New York
| Posted: 2004-08-19 21:00
Quote:
|
UGTO:
- All planets get a +5% chance to revolt against invasion, even research colonies.
- Depots and reloads repair armor 10% faster.
- Infantry take 30 seconds less to train.
- Planets receive a -5 penalty to research. Penalty is higher for research hubs. Cannot lower a planet's research below 10.
ICC:
- When invading UGTO planets, negates 5% revolt bonus.
- Ships can tap into planetary shield generators to replenish shield strength (But will drain the shield gen's power quickly, so be careful about using it if you're being bombed).
- If planet has a working shield gen, reduces the damage to infantry by 25% from bio bombs.
- ICC starports are more susceptable to pirates, but more resistant to plagues.
K'luth:
- If a planet is underpowered, K'luth population can provide 2 power per person, using their psionic energies to tap into and fuel the planetary power grid. This ability only lasts for 15 minutes and has a cooldown timer of 15 minutes (takes 15 minutes for ability to be used again).
- Successfully cloaking all ships during a blockade reduces the capture timer by 5-10 minutes. (Same as end of idea three thingy)
- K'luth starports are more susceptable to plague, but more resistant to pirates.
|
|
I am loving these ideas. Got anymore coming?
~Switch
_________________
* [=TB=]Enterprise @39933 sent to Clan: "Thats a lie Switch, you'd never let anyone else drink rum if it were right there. You'd slip teh roofies in and start drinking it yourself and not even realize it."
|
Hyena
Cadet
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 28
| Posted: 2004-08-20 00:14
why not seperate the industrial planet's advantages so you have a supply planet and a factory planet. Also, would there be a limit as to what tech could reach? What do you do with tech that stockpiles? I'm just saying because I see planets with like 1 million metals so if research gets to 1 million then it'd be pointless to try and reduce a planet's tech and make it easier to spawn by SYs then in the old jumpgate spawn method. Besides that I like it. Also, why not make it so you can choose to deny specific resources for trade (that way a military planet could keep it's food). Also, make it so items can be traded via starport. Starport A sends every fusion reactor 1500 beyond 15 to friendly starports. Also, forgot to mention this earlier if blockades are implemented what's to stop 6 ecm boats from sitting at a planet until they cap it? that especially becomes a problem when you have 3-4 planets sitting next to each other that can be capped waay more easily. Also, if you lose a ship cause it's stuck on a planet w/o SY why not have the starports send it to a friendly SY? ^_^ that's all I can think of for now
_________________
22:11:45 [=MCN=]King Midshipman Dempster: \"bito smells like cat poo\"
22:11:58 [S.W]AdmBito: \"I cant disagree with that\"
22:12:17 [eXS]Zeus {the Grand Poobah}: \"you have a lot of cats?\"
22:12:27 [S.W]AdmBito: \"No, just a lot of cat poo\"
|
Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
| Posted: 2004-08-20 03:25
At the moment planets have generic population on planets. It could be made so that each unit of population has a racial identity, Kluth or Human (Humans could be split into ICC/UGTO). This is determined when a planet is initially colonised. If population/refugees/colonist move from another planet they keep their racial identity. So many planets could have a mixed population. When a planet is bombed, or invaded its population modifies the effects. Bio-Bombs would have more effect on Humans (rational: The pathogen has been targeted at Human biology), but MIRV's have more effect on Kluth population (rational: Radiation induced mutations plays havoc with the Kluth genetic engineering).
The effect would be that a planet of mostly Humans under Kluth control or a planet of mostly Kluth under Human control would be easier to invade because its population will provide some aid to the liberators, ranging from simple warnings from civilians to liberating troops, “Watch out there is a bunker around the corner.” to more active guerilla & resistance movements. This would result in a relevant attack bonus or defense penalty with troop to troops combat.
modifiers.
The faction modifiers should be consistent with the Faction profiles. So Kluth are warriors so they have an attack bonus, but a defence penalty. ICC are defensive so their troops have a defence bonus, but attack penalty. UGTO would be neutral no attack modifiers, no defence bonus.
The Kluth telepathy ability could increase their ability to conspire against invaders, increasing the chance of rebellion against Human control.
A loyalist population would be usable in all building types, but a hostile population could not be make very poor troops, have a reduced efficiency in research and manufacturing, but normal food production.
We need to consider if we should splitting Human population into ICC and UGTO ? Im not sure we should. Having the same type might encourage rivalry between ICC and UGTO for control of easily intergrated human populations who would be more easily converted into loyalists than a completely alien population.
Edited for clarity.
[ This Message was edited by: Wyke on 2004-08-20 16:31 ]
_________________
|
Tellaris
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 830
From: Land of Chocolate
| Posted: 2004-08-20 04:37
Anyone mind if I tack on an idea?
I don't remember if I suggested this before, so...
Ah ha! Found the old post! Page 5... I think it fits in quite well with the ideas presented here.
http://www.darkspace.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=25945&forum=36&5
Don't wanna repeat it, it was long as heck.
_________________
Captain of the StarCruiser
I hit planets for fun!
Spellchecker, the POWER t00l
|
JackSwift
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 30, 2002
Posts: 1806
From: Where the Sun dont Shine (Seattle-ish)
| Posted: 2004-08-20 13:58
Quote:
|
On 2004-08-20 00:14, falcon wrote:
Also, would there be a limit as to what tech could reach?
|
|
Yes, hopefully there would be research caps (like now). That way we wouldn't have to worry about a planet having 236576974 research points at certain planets. I was suggesting that if Say a planet need another 50 research for a dictor (tech level 70), that a different planet could supply that, and keep supplying it as long as the dictor is in place.
Quote:
|
Why not make it so you can choose to deny specific resources for trade (that way a military planet could keep it's food).
Make it so items can be traded via starport.
Also, if you lose a ship cause it's stuck on a planet w/o SY why not have the starports send it to a friendly SY?
|
|
All very good ideas. Remember in 1.480 where you could say which planets to export/import which resources? Guess we could just have something like that reinstated.
Quote:
|
Forgot to mention this earlier if blockades are implemented what's to stop 6 ecm boats from sitting at a planet until they cap it?
|
|
I think I'll answer this quote with another quote.
Quote:
|
These 5 enemy ships used for the blockade must be destroyer class or heavier, to prevent fleets of ecm scouts capping planets. Same thing goes for the defenders: scouts and frigates do not count for breaking the blockade.
|
|
Now if the ecm/eccm/cloaking system was reworking, we would have to change this to fit the new system. Also remember that without ecm scouts/frigs, these people would still have to sit at a planet for 30+ minutes. In that time, defenders could surely show up and cause havoc, and if not... that's much time wasted by sitting just for one planet.
Your second point about capping clusters that way is very interesting, though. Perhaps for each planet being blockaded at the same time, it would add 10-15 minutes to capture the cluster? That way the attackers would have to stay in the cluster for a long time, without dying or the blockade being cancelled by defending ships. Also make sure that to blockade a planet you must be within... 1000 gu? 1500?
Okies, also nice ideas Baikon. That's got the gist of Grim's pirate idea (backwater rich systems could be taken over by pirates, declare themselves independent). Good stuff.
And I love Sard's and Wyke's ideas. It adds even more depth. Keep 'em coming guys!
_________________
The only thing I know is that I know nothing. -Socrates
[ This Message was edited by: JackSwift on 2004-08-20 14:05 ]
_________________
(too lazy to rehost that old sig)
\"Errare Human Est.\"
|
Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
| Posted: 2004-08-20 16:22
Quote:
|
Yes, hopefully there would be research caps (like now). That way we wouldn't have to worry about a planet having 236576974 research points at certain planets.
|
|
Perhaps it could be 'spent' on something. Perhaps lots of points for a very minor improvement in something. Efficiency of a structure, or effectiveness of a weapon, defense system or engine for the faction. This could be useful for creating an arms race between all the factions. It could also provide a hook for further diplomatic and spying. There would need to be a test of how much reseach was being generated then decicide what to do with it.
Quote:
|
These 5 enemy ships used for the blockade must be destroyer class or heavier, to prevent fleets of ecm scouts capping planets. Same thing goes for the defenders: scouts and frigates do not count for breaking the blockade.
|
|
Rather than based on a fixed number of ships how about a points system. i.e. Scout=1, Frigate=2,Dessie=3... After all given enough small ships a blockade could be run, or held. So to make the Blockade succeed the attacking faction needs twice as many points within the bloackade zone, otherwise the defender can succeed in running the blockade. The planet could be counted as having some points from transports based on its level of trade to cover the base points a blockage needs to overcome. This should also scale for various numbers and sizes of blockaders and defenders.
[ This Message was edited by: Wyke on 2004-08-20 16:22 ]
_________________
|
Tellaris
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 830
From: Land of Chocolate
| Posted: 2004-08-20 22:05
Just a little clareification.
Independents are NOT alligned with ANYONE, not even eachother, unless it serves their interrests (Such as an invasion by a faction they hate grately. Like ICC or/and K'Luth). Independents CAN take over eachother. Thus you can get mini, powerful, independent factions forming. Their main interrests would be maintaining their soverignty. Second comes tradeing for what they need. This would probobly work best with a Diplomacy system, where a faction can be peaceful, ally itself with, or declare war on independent planets/mini factions. Independents would probobly not be with the pirates...
Very complicated to implement, not likely to happen soon.
_________________
Captain of the StarCruiser
I hit planets for fun!
Spellchecker, the POWER t00l
[ This Message was edited by: Baikon on 2004-08-20 22:05 ]
_________________
Captain of the StarCruiser
I hit planets for fun!
Spellchecker, the POWER t00l
|
EternalSoldat
Vice Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 18
From: Lobby.
| Posted: 2004-08-20 22:24
PURE GENUIS
i absolutely love it
get this in DS soon
_________________
|
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
