| Author |
This really needs to be looked at from whoever develops/programs this game. |
Banzi
Cadet
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 31
From: Ohio
|  Posted: 2004-07-11 02:07
I just came to this game about umm 8 days ago maybe? And im totally enjoying it all. Theres no little kids swearin running there mouths. Theres great team play. And its just about fun whatever you do. I even just like to build stuff. And supp driving is kindof fun too.
BUT! theres a slight BIG BIG (I MEAN BIG) problem with the way the factions are laided out. And how simple enough it is to switch sides. Hence the BIG cluster on UGTO last nite.
Now granted Im new to this game and all. But having someone from another faction try and boss all UGTO around and achieve thier own personnal goals is something that just doesnt sit well with me. Since it was only 2 days ago I was helping to defend my home planets from the very same person in question.
I strongly suggest, that some sort of system be made concerning the MV server. Since it is too easy to mess the other side up whenever that so said person wants. This is no way would accur on any other servers. like Newbie or Adm.
I would like to you (DS developers) that code be impliemented for each person to choice a faction once they obtain a certain rank (i.e. Commander) And that person wouldnt not be allowed to switch to the other factions. Unless granted from someone like MODS or Development Team. (This coding is soo simple. Simple Faction Flag within the database would take care of this in no time) And if you want since I have developed for Sony and a couple other game manufactors would be more the happy to code this for you if you DONT have the time.
So I am begging and pleading with the Development Team to not vote or comment about this. But put it into the final asap.
Peace.
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Aragorn
Cadet
Joined: January 08, 2004
Posts: 168
From: Vancouver, Canada
| Posted: 2004-07-11 02:12
Here you go Bomber, an old post of mine that agrees with you,,,,, from about April
This is rapidly becoming my pet peeve and cause.
I am kinda P.O. ed to see players switching sides during battles in the Metaverse.
Specific examples include SEa Monkey who played UGTO for half of a battle on April 19th and then the other half for the ICC. I don't think this should be allowed and I've posted my rational for this on the forum before. It destroys the teamwork idea behind fleets an factions in the metaverse. Let players try out different factions in non permanent servers but not in the Metaverse where they can give away information and betray hard earned gains. It is more excusable for SEamonkey who is unaffiliated but then again, behaviour like that leaves all unaffliliated players suspect.
I truely don't get how affiliated players can switch sides in the metaverse without penalty. If I am outta line here and don't understand some basic concept about the game, please fill me in.
Again, for development purposes and to make the game enjoyable. I think this behaviour should be banned.
Thanks
Aragorn
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Aragorn
Cadet
Joined: January 08, 2004
Posts: 168
From: Vancouver, Canada
| Posted: 2004-07-11 02:14
and how about this one frm further back
» » Developer Feedback (Suggestions) » » Switching Factions in the Metaverse Game
Author Switching Factions in the Metaverse Game
Aragorn
Vice Admiral
Marik Colonial Navy
Chatting in 'DarkSpace English'
Joined: January 08, 2004
Posts: 74
From: Vancouver, Canada
Posted: 2004-04-15 14:13
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Hi,
I am sure this topic has come up before but it's new to me.
I am dedicated player to the story line of Darkspace which is very well thought out and should not be forgotten in the game.
In light of that it is disturbing that players in the Metaverse can switch factions easily and frequently. Without nameing names I am tracking at least two players with I will see playing ICC, then UGTO, then ICC; all within the same period of time that I am on. This concerns me that they are sharing my fleets information.
Admittedly, it's a game and people are here to have fun; however, like football, hockey or any other game, we take our fun seriously. We don't see hockey players swithcing benches in game. The team work that we all need to succeed in Darkspace is jeapordized by players that switch back and forth depending on their moods and where they think they can earn more pres. ( Again - a am refering to the Metaverse game cause thats where it all counts. )
The same goes for ICC players who then play Kluth just so that they can harass the UGTO on more than one front without needing to use diplomacy - which in itself could be another more developed and interesting element to this game. Darkspace is already more than just a tactical combat game. Its more than shooting things up... thats just the fun bit!!! The teamwork and cooperation on here is amazing. I am sure the Kluth teams and the ICC have their own examples too of UGTO players doing the same to them, or maybe they don't.
I am saying that the teamwork aspects of Darkspace are jeopordized by allowing players to switch factions easily to share information about other factions tactics, strengths, weaknesses, etc.
My suggestion is to let them try out the different fleets in the other servers but in the Metaverse, they have to chose one faction at a time and joining a new one erases all prestige etc.
If factions and fleets are to gel as a working concept, then that only makes sence to me. Otherwise all unaffiliated players will be suspect and if your always watching over your shoulder for spys and saboteurs, it takes away from the game itself.
Tell me what you think.
..... OH, and P.S.
In order for diplomacy and truces to work better, that would mean we would need to have a way to communicate these to all players. Some suggestions are:
1.
When you log in, have a screen that pops up before you select your ship and spawning ( ugh hate that word, it's so Kluth ) area that tells you of any truces or cooperative treaties in effect and in what systems or teams. Truces could be only system wide, or they coud be faction wide.... development can flesh it out.
2.
Other factions ships that agree to a truce could show up as a different marker colour such as grey or neutral yellow. If they break the truce by fireing on your faction they would revert to red. In order then to prevent truces from being broken by accidental fire, that might mean reverting to read only takes place after signigicant damage done to one of your own factions ship, not just a few shots.
Again, anyone interested in development?
Thanks for reading this far.
You are awarded the Aragorn Medal of Long Windedness
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Banzi
Cadet
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 31
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2004-07-11 02:38
Quote:
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On 2004-07-11 02:12, Aragorn wrote:
It destroys the teamwork idea behind fleets an factions in the metaverse. Let players try out different factions in non permanent servers but not in the Metaverse where they can give away information and betray hard earned gains. |
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This is what im talking about. The whole concept of the game is sides vs sides! Not someone jumping ship cause thier side is losing! Or what have you.
If I was Kluth. how hard would it be right this minute to switch sides and join say ICC and just start scrapping planets. Ok! some are locked. But I have seen some arent! we are humans of course and people tend to forget minor details. Or what if i wanted technology from one side and bought it to mine. This surely is very easy!
Something seriously has to be done about this. And im amazed that it has gone on for so long. You (DS Development Team) Have done an excellent job on creating a game that is not only enjoyable but fun to spend countless hours playing. Its very detailed and graphics are nicely laided out.
But I cant believe that noone has put this into product as of yet. Honestly think of it this way. I cant be employed by DarkSpace for a month and take the code to Microsoft.
And if your seriously worried about your customer base, Honestly I wouldnt be. Game is way to strong. And customer base is growing from what I've seen so far in my limited days playing. And if you still are. Then make switching sides a heavy press penilty(sp). And how much press am I talking about? ALOT.. average day someone who plays can possible make around 1000 press if they luckly and theres enough action. If they want to switch remove 20000+ maybe even more! make it so they had time to think about what they are doing before they are doing it.
And yes I would make everyone on an upcoming patch choice sides. If theres no more of one certain side. Then it will get boring and people will switch.
BTW this topic or anything about this topic does not include servers Newbie or Adm.
Peace
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ChiggenWingz
Cadet
Joined: May 13, 2002
Posts: 185
From: Sydney Australia
| Posted: 2004-07-11 03:33
Problem is, that there are a lot of new players that will subscribe to the game instantly and will join in on the MV fun. They will normally try all 3 factions. Other people like a change of scenery. If we lock everyone to one side that they pick (like it use to be I think) the game got boring a lot quicker, because you have to reset your profile, and thus go through all the ranks again just to see if you like the other faction.
Personally I'd rather see a new player tag thingy to show how long a player has been on the one side for. Such as myself, I've been one-eyed UGTO player since I started, and I cant tell whos defected and whos been on the UGTO side of ages.
I was there today with you Bomber when this event occured, and remember the person you speak about was using their friends account, and why should they be restricted to the one side? After you had left and such, I followed this player, and yes it was a bit of a time waste and now I know from now and on not to follow this person into battle.
So in essence, I'd like to see some sort of timer to stop sabotage and what not, say like 2 weeks on the one faction side before you can start messing around with planets or bossing people about, sort of like a flag above their name "DEFECTER", or something lolz :P
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Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
| Posted: 2004-07-11 04:35
I agree with most of what's been said.
I offer the solution I've offered before. Any player swapping factions, suffer a prestige penalty which reduces them by one rank. This is balanced and proportionate response, any defector is not going to receive the same prestige that a indigenous officer is.
The weight of the penalty is relatively low for low ranking players. A set back of a few hours for Ensign or Lieutenant, a few days for ranks upto Captain, but becomes increasing sever for higher ranks, so it would be weeks for Admirals and months for the FA/GA.
Any player who wishes to get a feel for the factions can do this in Newbie or fancies a change can do this in the Admiral server without penalty.
A good side effect of this would be a significant of reduction of the tech smuggling by faction hoping, which just devalues legitimately captured tech.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2004-07-11 04:45
I should change it so after a week the prestege loss is added on again..
this means that after a week if someone doesnt like what they swaped too they can swap back
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Tzunamii {Cmdr}
Cadet
Joined: February 07, 2004
Posts: 28
| Posted: 2004-07-11 04:45
Well, I agree on the faction-hopping thing and it has to be somewhat harder to do that, but then again - if we lock it down too hard (as Nova said) the game will be boring and we will start loosing even more of the playerbase.
My humble suggestion is as follows, do _not_ let any player who hasn't a fleet logon to the MV.
What will we gain with this? Well, a couple of things really. A player who is thinking about switching factions mid-battle has to go to lobby to leave the fleet (if he leaves his fleet in MV he should automatically be booted from MV) and then he has to get a new fleet to accept his recruitment. Also, fleet-joining would also be restricted to the lobby.
Of course, this is not a perfect solution as a rival faction/fleet may already be standing by to welcome the "traitor" with open arms, but atleast it will be more difficult and can't be done in the MV.
It will also stop or atleast minimize the faction hopping to just get enemy build modules and Larvae-hunting, for instance. Then maybe it can be a little more as the Devs thought it should be from the beginning.
If we add a timer to the whole thing we could make it even more intresting. Let's play around with the thought of having a 6 hour faction hopping timeout, i e when you've changed faction once the timer will begin to count down and then you can't change fleet for the next 6 hours. Just a thought.
Thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
Regards,
/Tzunamii.
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2004-07-11 04:47
*cracks his knuckles* I guess I'll start playing Devil's Advocate this morning by trying my hardest to poke holes in this (though I'm sure others can find holes without my commentary).
Now, first, I will admit that I did not read all of the posts above. I'm sorry... I know I write long posts that I expect people to read (or at least skim through), but I kinda got the gist that this is about faction-shifters. If I got that point wrong, then someone shoot me down in the next post and I'll clear this out with a nice-looking edit about how I made myself look stupid.
It is true... people shift factions to be on the winning side instead of the losing side... well, now, some people. That's a natural human occurrence, though... there are those that just can't take the thought of... well... losing. This is an unfortunate side effect to having different factions/groups/thingies that players can join.
So... this is a horrible crime... we should lock away the children under the floorboards... we should grab our swords and fight the hordes of people that just can't stay put... right?
Naaaaaaaaah.
When the new Command and Influence system is implemented (instead of sitting there and collecting dust), it will favor people that stay loyal to a faction. Those that shift factions will, as far as I know, suffer penalties to this... perhaps even go into the negatives.
Of course, some people may wonder, "What the hell is this system going to do?" And rightfully so... After all, if you don't know the effect this system will have, how can you possibly gauge whether or not it will keep some faction-hoppers still?
That is a question I cannot answer, simply because I've already forgotten a bit about the Command and Influence system (okay, folks, I'm starting to see light outside... surely you can't expect me to describe these sorts of details for you). You can ask someone more knowledgable, or maybe someone will be kind enough to describe what it is on this thread, or point you to where the information is written.
What I know for certain is that this system will not discourage everyone. Back when the scenario servers were active, players had a chance to experiment with all of the factions and their ships (offhand, this playing sorely detracted from MV action... a trade-off...). Now that players are pretty much regulated to the Metaverse to do this, they will. You can't fault all of them, either... some are new players that just want to see all of the stuff. They want to experience how each faction works and get a feel for a game, and they cannot be blamed for that.
Now, yes, there will be those people that will shift and will immediately try to take control, saying that we should go here and not here. Some of them are newbie players that are trying to help... some of them think they know best (sometimes right, but mostly for the wrong)... and some are just people that want to make themselves feel big and like they're doing something that will ensure victory... or make the other members of the faction walk into a trap.
And, unfortunately, sabotage will be something we will all have to combat now and again. The only defense is to lock planets, but this poses great problems for newbies that want to help build or want experience toying around with stuff and don't want to go to the Newbie server. It's another trade-off, and there are consequences for those.
So... now... let me cover the possible consequences of what may occur if faction shifting is restricted until you reset your profile or two weeks pass or what-have-you...
For one, people that want to experiment and look around and different things will be sorely restricted (Believe it or not, it can be difficult for a lot of players to gain Fleet Admiral, see the station the faction has to offer, and then reset their profile so they can see another faction's station).
Then, there are those people that do get bored of seeing the same thing over and over. For instance, I can't fault an ICC player of getting tired of seeing grey and blue. Some players just want a new setting... a... vacation, if you will.
The last major point I will make will go to people that leave their faction to help other factions. There are times when there is a sore imbalance in players (generally created by free trials, where people swoop in to game once again), and there are people that leave to go help other factions. Maybe it's because they're getting tired of so much chatter in their own faction... or maybe it's because they want to feel the challenge of being outnumbered... or maybe they don't find it right by their being so much activity versus a certain faction when the odds against it are clearly stacked. This isn't real war, and as such, people can act on their emotions and do as they wish... whether by abstaining from fighting altogether or moving to the other side.
I can see the grievances and annoyances that some faction-shifters bring, but I can also see the good in it. And it is this good that says to me that the system should not change as you say it should. While faction-shifters may chase off some players because they can't enjoy the game, I'm sure the fact that people have to pay to play this game on a regular basis does it just as much, if not more. Furthermore, if the higher-ups did restrict faction movement, I feel that many more players would be chased away.
...And...that does it for me. I really do hope I got the topic of this thread right, or else I'm going to have to delete a lot of stuff...
*rubs his eyes and shuffles off*
---EDIT: Read the new posts that were made, in addition to looking at the other posts some more that I skimmed over (yeah, I'm a fast reader... it's the school's fault!) while I was typing this... and, I'll definitely agree with Wyke (I believe it was Wyke...) about the faction hopping for tech. That's definitely a frikkin' pain in the arse....
Of course, it's always fun to see people faction hop to grab larvae and AM mines, and then go back to their own faction to try and sell them.
And, from what I know, the penalty in itself should come by way of the Influence and Command system...
Ugh... bah... I'm just not going to go on with this. I'm sticking with my idea that the goods of faction shifting far outweigh the evils of faction shifting.
...And, frankly, to those people that call others faction hoppers (I've been called that myself several times): That really, really doesn't hurt my feelings, and I'm sure it doesn't hurt the feelings of some of the other people. We know what the others do it for; I do it because I feel the other faction needs a hand from a suicidial maniac that will drive Hives into hordes of assault cruisers for fun and UGTO stations into fleets of missle dreads to try to take a planet. If you've got a problem with my ideas of balance, fine. Keep it to yourself.
...Okay...that really does it for me. Maybe I'll edit again later.---
---SECOND EDIT: I bloody lied. I'm going to type more stuff while this subject's still fresh in my head...
Now, all of these prestige penalties for shifting would definitely add to the realism of the game (realism in a science-fiction game? Surely I must jest!). It would be a great way to make people stick with their original decisions, and they would suffer if they chose not to. I can't fault people for that.
...But, now, if we're going to go into more realistic ideas... then... how about not allowing any human faction to convert to the K'luth or vice versa... because these two races are at war... and while a human may accept K'luth (K'luth are kinda advanced in some ways, and they seem to have a bit more intelligence)... I seriously doubt it would go the same way for human traitors to the K'luth side.
......Maybe that was a little too realistic? I hope so. It'll get the message through.
Realism's nice, and I would prefer there to be a penalty, but you try to make this too realistic and you might anger some players that just want to help others to make the game more balanced. I'm sure balancing effects could also be triggered by the higher-ups in some insidious way against the most powerful and prosperous faction, but I think players would be better equipped to handle this.
Remember that this isn't a war... this is a game. As much as we might try to make this game realistic to improve our version of fun, it may completely detract from what another person thinks of fun.
...All right... fine... I've seriously had it. I'm wasting my perfectly good morning typing on this when I could be curled up under my covers reading another AD&D campaign supplement. My feet and hands are cold, the veins are bulging out on my eyes, and if I didn't like this game so much, I would've never bothered to make this edit... let alone make this post.
Have fun!---
[small][ This Message was edited by: Grimith J. Reaper on 2004-07-11 04:54 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: Grimith J. Reaper on 2004-07-11 05:04 ]
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-07-11 05:30
get some sleep grim =)
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2004-07-11 05:54
Quote:
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On 2004-07-11 02:07, Bomber wrote:
Now granted Im new to this game and all. But having someone from another faction try and boss all UGTO around and achieve thier own personnal goals is something that just doesnt sit well with me. Since it was only 2 days ago I was helping to defend my home planets from the very same person in question.
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Well that happens in DS.
the person your fighting side by side with could very well be your worst nightmare a few hours later.
Quote:
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I strongly suggest, that some sort of system be made concerning the MV server. Since it is too easy to mess the other side up whenever that so said person wants. This is no way would accur on any other servers. like Newbie or Adm.
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The code is there, only Fleetless players have the ability to choose ANY faction when entering the server.
HOWEVER if a player is found violating the ROC as in Sabotage *scrapping/disabling planets * then his/her stats will most likely be reduced to 0
1st time mostlikly parts of the profile like Transport/engineering
2nd time total whipe.
[/quote]
Quote:
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I would like to you (DS developers) that code be impliemented for each person to choice a faction once they obtain a certain rank (i.e. Commander) And that person wouldnt not be allowed to switch to the other factions. Unless granted from someone like MODS or Development Team. (This coding is soo simple. Simple Faction Flag within the database would take care of this in no time) And if you want since I have developed for Sony and a couple other game manufactors would be more the happy to code this for you if you DONT have the time.
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That just wont happen, part why this game is so good is because you can scout the other factions as well without having to start all over and i pray this will never change.
granted that a certain timer would be handy after you switch side like 2-4 weeks b4 you can swap again.
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Banshee
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: August 28, 2001
Posts: 2181
From: Philadelphia, PA
| Posted: 2004-07-11 07:24
The original solution to this problem was the suggestion of each player having a seperate profile for each faction, i wondered what happened to that one?
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2004-07-11 07:38
My suggestions would be either separate profile for each faction OR having to pay credits to switch sides, depending on your current prestige. If you make it cost 5 times your prestige in credits to switch sides then it would discourage some of the rapid switching that occurs.
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rnrn
DarkSpace Developer - Retired
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2004-07-11 08:38
Seperate profiles for each faction are an... interesting idea... don't know what to say about it right now in my current state, but I can't quite shoot it down. 
Paying credits seems like another idea I can't shoot down... and since it's more difficult to earn credits these days (granted, it's extremely hard to lose credits, so the only way to go is up), it will make some people think twice......
......but it won't make everyone think twice. You can look at the list of the top 100 credit holders for proof of that.
Still, though... they're more feasible ideas than just banning faction-hopping... or whatever the idea was at the start of this... I've forgotten already... -_-
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Gaderath
Admiral
Joined: August 02, 2001
Posts: 71
| Posted: 2004-07-11 08:51
Quote:
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On 2004-07-11 04:47, Grimith J. Reaper wrote:
Now, first, I will admit that I did not read all of the posts above. I'm sorry... I know I write long posts that I expect people to read (or at least skim through)...
It is true... people shift factions to be on the winning side instead of the losing side... well, now, some people....
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first, nope, i didnt read all of your post like u knew would happen, second, if i ever shift teams in a game its to be on the loosing side. theres nothing more annoying than playing an online game where the enemy is so weak or few that your teammates mop them up before you even glimpse them. you play for hours and hardly see the enemy. that to me is boring.
i think we need to make new players than faction hopping in the MV is a bad thing, and if they want to play the other factions, they should try out the scenario servers. on top of that (becuase education is always the first step) we need to make it so they still have the option to change their faction in the MV, just not in a way that might compromise their former side. i propose that they must declare in their profile a faction, and to change it takes a certain amount of time, anywhere from a few hours to a few days to a week, this way if ppl change their minds or need a change of pace (b/c lets face it, scenario servers arent the best place to try out the high end ships) they can change faction, but not in a way that they can influence the MV. during this waiting period they should probably not be allowed on MV at all, so when they do faction hop they cant take any valuable/ up-to-date intel with them.
i dont think most ppl care if one day they play with some1 and the next they play against them, i think its more upsetting when one moment your playing w/ some1 and the next moment your playing against them. its very annoying when they change mid-battle, especially if its just b/c your side was outnumbered.
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