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new type of PD! Chain-Gauss! |
Southpark
Admiral
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 132
From: Texas
|  Posted: 2004-03-15 00:17
ok! so we were having the random gun discussion in the lobby, when a Chain-gun came up, and into my mind popped the almost-useless gauss gun.
Introducing:
The Gauss-Chain-Gun!
turn that pesky gauss gun into a chain-gun style gauss rifle. and makes it an ideal multi-target PD weapon!, uses ammo instead of energy(versus the Pulse laser etc.) but can engage several pd targets in succession!
Anyhow, it would make sense to have a gatling gun type point-defense since thats what most point defense is... just increase its rate of fire(vs pulse lasers) but give it an ammo count(the downside.) great against these newfangled DefenseIII/FighterIII bases!
and make it replace Weapon I slots instead of Beam I slots. thxthx!
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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2004-03-15 00:26
If the gauss gun had its collision issues fixed, and the damage and/or rate of fire was upped...heck it might be useful. People have said that with 1000gu range the damaged shouldn't be upped, but meh...
Anyway, I like the idea of a chain gun. UGTO sticks with particle weapons, K'luth psionically-derived weapons, and ICC physical projectile based...all for Weapon I of course...though I wouldn't mind seeing Really Big Railguns(tm) for torp slots  .
Before this turns into a post randomly generating ideas that others have doubtlessly thought of, I'll just toss in my support for your idea.
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-15 03:46
Quote:
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On 2004-03-15 00:26, Antra wrote:
Really Big Railguns(tm) for torp slots .
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Hell no.. can you imagine the SOUND of those things?
TSCHWOMP TSCHWOMP TSCHWOMP
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2004-03-15 06:43
I don't think a cannon-style weapon like the Gauss Gun would be very good at shooting down missiles/fighters. They're damn hard to hit, you know.
But as for the really big railgun idea...well, there's only one thing I have to say to that.
1.482.
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-Viper-
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 55
From: UK
| Posted: 2004-03-15 07:16
The gauss isnt TO bad, it the target is already half dead, and has no armor or shields left you might take 1% off
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Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!
| Posted: 2004-03-15 07:22
Quote:
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On 2004-03-15 06:43, Jim Starluck wrote:
But as for the really big railgun idea...well, there's only one thing I have to say to that.
1.482.
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So, what your saying Jimmy, is: Two more weeks?
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Roger
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: November 07, 2001
Posts: 105
| Posted: 2004-03-15 07:24
Quote:
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On 2004-03-15 07:22, Juxtapose wrote:
So, what your saying Jimmy, is: Two more weeks?
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Damn jux. You beat me to it!
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Roger
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: November 07, 2001
Posts: 105
| Posted: 2004-03-15 07:24
Quote:
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On 2004-03-15 07:22, Juxtapose wrote:
So, what your saying Jimmy, is: Two more weeks?
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Damn jux. You beat me to it!
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-15 07:34
No dissing the Gauss.. Jimmy actually managed to remove ALL the rear armor of my CD during a whole bombing run with self-supply on, with only three Gauss guns!
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Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!
| Posted: 2004-03-15 07:36
Wow...and if we all got prestige for damaging Armor, Coombie would have a little more competition... imagine what kind of Hull damage he could have done had he mounted something else!
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Astral Viper
Cadet
Joined: February 27, 2003
Posts: 343
| Posted: 2004-03-15 07:40
actualy projectile weapon pd is very good but only at close range cause filling up the entire area around a ship pretty much guarentees notings getting through and there are computers now a days that can track and lead a target to shoot it down let alone computers in the age of ds (ps american aircraft have automated chain gun pd and it works.)
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2004-03-15 08:35
Okay Jux, since you have repeatedly dissed my view of Gauss Guns as viable weapons, lemme spell it out for you.
Say you have a group of five ICC Cruisers - Four HCs, one Interdictor. You also have eight UGTO EADs.
With four Gauss Guns on my Cruiser, I can deal 1% hull damage to a Dread. Four ships = 4% hull damage. They fire about every one-two seconds. An EAD explodes at least every sixty seconds, if not faster.
With the Interdictor active, the EADs can't close-jump the formation, and the ICC ships should be able to fly fast enough that the EADs will have to drain their energy to nill if they want to keep up.
Yes, Juxtapose, Gauss Guns aren't the best choice if you plan to be dueling a single opponent in close-quarters combat, as seems to be the style these days. Everybody closes to 500 gu or less and starts throwing torps at each other.
But I prefer to plan in the long-term. Given the sizes of the battles we've seen in the Metaverse lately, those one-on-one close-range duels are going to be a thing of the past.
P.S. - Sono, I think that might have been back when all cannon-type weapons had their damage obscenely high...not sure exactly when.
[ This Message was edited by: Jim Starluck on 2004-03-15 08:37 ]
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2004-03-15 09:05
You remember rapid AA flak weapons? They were supposed to create WALL of steel against attacking airplane ... it was not just about precision but also about ammount of projectiles ...
now it's different our modern rapid fire guns are not just ultra rapid in firerate and projectile velocity, but they can engage targets flying over supersonic speed ....
in DS is idea of such weapons nice but the problem comes with calculating missfire rate, because all is serverside it must be well thought out and optimized to not bring server to knees with 5 ships using "chain gun" ...
i'm also for more types PD weapons and ship types:
there were and are ships in navy which got special purpose and that are Escorts and AntiAir classes:
- equiped with missiles against fighters/bombers
- equiped with various types of rapid fire guns and flaks to eliminate targets (in DS example lasers/beams for close range, chaingun close-medium, flak (explosion area effect) long range
- equiped with sensors to detect such incoming threat
maybe after 1.482 we will see shift to more ship classes oriented to e.g. fleet escort (fighters become more dangers as they gets swarmed, grouped and coordinated in attacks)
who will fly such ships will become valuable for stations and dreads or convoys (wink wink for far future)
but things like this lay far away from now ...
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[ This Message was edited by: Dwarden on 2004-03-15 09:07 ]
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Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!
| Posted: 2004-03-15 09:18
I know where you are going Jim, and we've been there before...though a bit differently.
You want formation combat. Battle Lines advancing firing their Gauss and destroying the enemy as they rush in. A row of Cannon Cruisers and Combat Dreads all firing Gauss with Missle Dreads and Command Dreads in the rear acting as Artillery, Fighter support and Supply. Interdictors, fast frigates in the fore, cruisers circling on the wings to deal with flankers.
I admit, that would be pretty damn cool.
Reminds me of when I first started playing. Back in FA server when a few of the players that could fly Dreads would face off with their lesser ships. Two lines, 20 players on each side...arguing about the usage of the Dictor in the game and how it ruined it.
Eventually one side would charge and whole bloody melee would ensue (kinda like now, actually), everyone fighting for themselves...pockets of ships surronding supplies while the battle flowed around.
You know what we need to make this all work though: A Command Control Screen similiar to the Nav Screen, where a Fleet Commander can group ships like we group weapons. Press of a button, like 1 and you can send commands to one wing of ships without all the clutter.
A way to designate sub-commanders so they have their own chat colors that only their group has. You really don't want 3 sub commanders issuing orders all at once...too confusing. Maybe make Blue text for Groups?
The Overall Fleet commander sits in the Special Nav screen and watches the battle. Presses 1 to high-light all ships in group one and either presses special 'Hot-Key Commands' like: Target this....go there, defend that...or manually issues orders.
That would be swell. Till then, combat tends to dissolve into everyship for themselves once battle/lag ensues.
Back to Gauss.... Gauss is really more effective, all cannons are really more effective, for use against the ICC.
Why? Because, our energy doesn't go down much speeding around at 20gu and firing torps...after flying a TC, its the same...UNTIL a lone fighter plinks you with a Particle cannon.
Suddenly, the active shields are sucking away at the reactor. Power is dropping. Add the more realistic: 10 Fighters, an annoying Harrier Frigate and a Battle Dread and your power levels get to be an issue.... Which is good...we got modulating shields, after all...good stuff that.
Gauss guns in a BD fleeing an Assault Cruiser are superb. Each little plink lowers the ability of that AC actually getting off a few rounds once it catches the BD. Gauss and all cannons are very effective like that.
Once you get close though, once an EAD gets into that line of Cannon Firing Cruisers and Combat Dreads...say, through a worm hole? Its over. Gauss is great for distance but no target will stay out of range for that long and when it comes down to a melee of ships slugging it out and torps flying everywhere...I will place even bets on the Torp carrying ships.
But, prove me wrong Jimmy! I will happily mod my ships to fire Gauss and I will happily let you command me in battle (just don't put me on follow), and if it works? Well-l, I will be the first one here stating so!
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-15 09:21
Quote:
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On 2004-03-15 08:35, Jim Starluck wrote:
P.S. - Sono, I think that might have been back when all cannon-type weapons had their damage obscenely high...not sure exactly when.
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Nope that was .480 MV - I was CD solo bombing a K'luth planet and you had refueled at a nearby Gas Giant in your Immortal..
Anyways, your described tactics are pretty theoretical for 2 reasons:
- You assume the EADs will just wait until they explode.
- You assume the Interdictor will not run out of Power, while assuming the EADs drain power by simply moving, which is not true
- The general Fleet looks a bit different than that, doesnt it..
Tactics with moving Carrier Cruisers and interdictors have been theorized too, but they all dont work..
Lets see how things turn out in .482 + Fighters update..
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