| Author |
My Beta Rant (Flame On) |
AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
|  Posted: 2004-02-13 01:41
Well, I suppose I should start this post off with the usual praise of Darkspace. This really is the only game I've ever paid for, and probaly will ever be the only one. There haven't been updates for months, nay, over a year, and still, I find the game very exciting. However, I am very much looking forward to future things from Palestar in general, and Faustus in particular.
But.....
I've played the Beta. Unfortunately, I haven't played much, and I realize this may affect and/or bias my judgements. It is easy, though, to notice the very large changes that Faustus has made. For example, the cosmetic changes. Fantastic. The drop-pods are also cool as hell. I like the ship-yard concept, and the strategic possibilities it brings. And the big thing, this meta-server, should be great for the futre of Darkspace.
But.....
There are things that aren't so lovely. Personally, I think the turning system is the most awkward thing ever, even when you turn yaw control off, you still get this delay before you turn. Why is that? And what was wrong with the old system? Demorian told me, I think right before he told me to shut my yap, was that this was closer to the old system, and therefore it was better. Why, just because it is throwback, is it better? Progress is a beautiful thing. Exhibit A: 1.481.
Also, the chat. I've heard grumblings about others not liking it, and I've heard of Faustus changing things that a lot of people didn't like. The chat is terrible as it is in beta. The old adage of "If it ain't broke, dont fix it" applies here. The present chat is perfect. You can address friendlies enemies, clan and targets easily and without hassle. In beta, there are added mouse movements, different colored texts to learn, and you can't address the other side at all.
Jumping while flying at full speed is a bit off kilter too. In previous versions, a ship was required to slow down to precisely jump to its target. Now, there is no penalty for jumping with out stopping. Why? Where is the strategy in that? Before, a ship would be stranded while it repaired its drive, and now, it can simply get back on the move and go where it wants. Actually, it may never need to e-jump in the first place. That will be useless now too. A fleet coming to the aid of wounded ships and e-jumping are now obsolete.
The interface of the game seem a little odd now too. The displays that show your hull, energy, and signature are, at least for ICC, on the bottom now. Pressing, I believe, F3, now, gets you to the planet display screen instead of F5. Why? Why was this changed? The new layouts sounds good when first pitched, but in practice, they seem more hassle than they are worth. Why would I want to press F5 to look at my profile, and press F4 on accident and have the log pop up on top of it, and not be able to read either? Again, it seems that the previous system was functional enough, maybe just add some window dressings. Maybe the see-through windows in Beta with the functions of the release version.
I realize that there are a lot of people out there who will say, "Sour grapes"
I ought to just suck it up and learn to live with it. This will probably be from the "vets". I'm merely saying what I think about it, and while I like most of this patch so far, some of it seems like it could be changed for the beta.
Bito
*edit* to all you "vets" flame-on....
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Another JackSwift Masterpiece
Attack? I'm too pretty for that...
[ This Message was edited by: AdmBito(Josefs Clone) on 2004-02-13 01:42 ]
[ This Message was edited by: AdmBito(Josefs Clone) on 2004-02-13 01:53 ]
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2004-02-13 02:23
The current control system is apparently causing desync. The chat controls are minor, they can be fixed anytime. Yes jumping at full speed takes some of the strategy out of the game, it will also force interdictor use on us. It will also take the giant bullseye off the larger ships and increase the hit and run element of the game. So its not all bad. Jumping in F2 will be fixed.
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2004-02-13 02:27
You can now use either turning system if you like.
As for the chat...no, the current system wouldn't work. That's because it broadcasts to the whole server. The New MV would, in this context, be an entire server. So the former allied chat would send to EVERY friendly, and the /e chat would send to EVERYONE.
It would quickly get beyond annoying.
There are a couple ways to address the other side- either target chats, tells, or most usable, yells. Yells basically function as range-limited /e chat.
As for the rest... *shrug*.. it's change. Is uncomfortable after so long with no change, but here we are.
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2004-02-13 10:37
Quote:
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On 2004-02-13 01:41, AdmBito(Josefs Clone) wrote:
Well, I suppose I should start this post off with the usual praise of Darkspace. This really is the only game I've ever paid for, and probaly will ever be the only one. There haven't been updates for months, nay, over a year, and still, I find the game very exciting. However, I am very much looking forward to future things from Palestar in general, and Faustus in particular.
But.....
I've played the Beta. Unfortunately, I haven't played much, and I realize this may affect and/or bias my judgements. It is easy, though, to notice the very large changes that Faustus has made. For example, the cosmetic changes. Fantastic. The drop-pods are also cool as hell. I like the ship-yard concept, and the strategic possibilities it brings. And the big thing, this meta-server, should be great for the futre of Darkspace.
But.....
There are things that aren't so lovely. Personally, I think the turning system is the most awkward thing ever, even when you turn yaw control off, you still get this delay before you turn. Why is that? And what was wrong with the old system? Demorian told me, I think right before he told me to shut my yap, was that this was closer to the old system, and therefore it was better. Why, just because it is throwback, is it better? Progress is a beautiful thing. Exhibit A: 1.481.
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Actually, this system has always been in the game, accesable from QWASD. The arrow system was added later. I do not know why it was changed. It may be for the good of the servers, or it may be because of an oversight. To be honest, I didn't know the arrow keys had changed until someone pointed it out, because I never use them. If F can put the arrow key scheme back in, then I'm sure he will, since there is no need other than potential sync issues to remove it. If not, then I am terribly sorry.
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Also, the chat. I've heard grumblings about others not liking it, and I've heard of Faustus changing things that a lot of people didn't like. The chat is terrible as it is in beta. The old adage of "If it ain't broke, dont fix it" applies here. The present chat is perfect. You can address friendlies enemies, clan and targets easily and without hassle. In beta, there are added mouse movements, different colored texts to learn, and you can't address the other side at all.
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Enh, it's just a new color scheme to learn. We've got some buttons worked out for it (F wants to remove the text ones to make it more multi-language compatable) which are color coded to help with identification of messages. The extra mouse movements...if you are THAT pressed for energy to move your arm, or time to move the courser, then something is wrong. Addressing enemies. I assume you mean the removal of /e. This is nessesary, no matter what we do, as /e would spam every single person in the MV. Since it's primary use is to goad the enemy, who then respond with /e, you can just imagine the spam that would occure.
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Jumping while flying at full speed is a bit off kilter too. In previous versions, a ship was required to slow down to precisely jump to its target. Now, there is no penalty for jumping with out stopping. Why? Where is the strategy in that? Before, a ship would be stranded while it repaired its drive, and now, it can simply get back on the move and go where it wants. Actually, it may never need to e-jump in the first place. That will be useless now too. A fleet coming to the aid of wounded ships and e-jumping are now obsolete.
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I like not having to stop to jump. Seems more fluid to me. I do agree that there needs to be some sort of re-evaluation of the system, so that the e-jump is useful again. The real complaint, I think, is that it is harder to track down and kill wounded ships. I am of mixed opinion on this, but since ships will most likely become more expensive, and since we will most likely take additional steps to discourage people treating ships as disposable objects (suicide station runs come to mind), I think giving people a bit better chance to escape is not a bad thing.
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The interface of the game seem a little odd now too. The displays that show your hull, energy, and signature are, at least for ICC, on the bottom now. Pressing, I believe, F3, now, gets you to the planet display screen instead of F5. Why? Why was this changed? The new layouts sounds good when first pitched, but in practice, they seem more hassle than they are worth. Why would I want to press F5 to look at my profile, and press F4 on accident and have the log pop up on top of it, and not be able to read either? Again, it seems that the previous system was functional enough, maybe just add some window dressings. Maybe the see-through windows in Beta with the functions of the release version.
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Engineering screen is gone, which is why there was a move of some interface components around, and why some of the f keys were remapped. You're probably to new to know this, but the interface gets tooled with in just about every single update. I expect it will get fiddled with even more with v1.482. As new features are designed, things have to change so that there is room for them.
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I realize that there are a lot of people out there who will say, "Sour grapes"
I ought to just suck it up and learn to live with it. This will probably be from the "vets". I'm merely saying what I think about it, and while I like most of this patch so far, some of it seems like it could be changed for the beta.
Bito
*edit* to all you "vets" flame-on....
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No flames, and no "suck-it-up"s, Ask your questions, and make your statements. It's the only way people can get answers.
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One small step for man. One giant leap, for mankind.
We leave as we came and, God willing, as we shall return, with peace
and hope for all mankind.
[ This Message was edited by: Gideon on 2004-02-13 10:38 ]
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Varz zZz zz
Cadet
Joined: March 16, 2002
Posts: 702
From: East Coast, USA.
| Posted: 2004-02-13 10:58
For my part I would like to state that I like the Beta and I think it will be a great improvement to the game.
Only thing I don't like is all the little stars around the ship.... I don't know it just looks fake to me. Everything else I think is pretty decent.
Turning system is ok... don't have a problem with that.
I prefer the jump while moving to the current system, so that is good.
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TAZ
Cadet
Joined: July 04, 2002
Posts: 143
From: U.S.A.
| Posted: 2004-02-13 11:13
I seem to remember everyone begging for changes, now that they are finnaly comming about all I see is complaining, whats up with that!! Everyone seems to want only the changes that would work best for themselves and not for the whole of the DS community. There are a few things about the Beta that I am frustrated with, ie the high tech level required for decent ships therefore requiring multiple research labs/domes/hydrofarms. However, I back up and I see the whole picture and think WOW thats a great idea. Grant it that a lot of the Beta will not play well in scenerio situations IMHO due to the need for terran planets to have sufficient population to support the research neccessary for larger ships without the need for domes and hydrofarms but the idea was not to make scenerio play better, it was to make MV play better, and I think it will.
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Strategery
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: December 07, 2002
Posts: 522
From: Straight Outta Boston!
| Posted: 2004-02-13 12:11
Well, I see why some would agree with my buddy Bito in disliking some of the changes, myself included. Yet, I do understand that changes are necessary, and always seem odd to begin with. This IS what all of you have been asking for. Your request is being granted, clearly not to letter, but only in the games best interests are these changes being made.
On that note, my quick opinions on Beta:
Overall, I give it about an 8.5. I definately like the fact that it's coming along so well now, and that merely 2 weeks ago it was almost unplayable in terms of te amount of bugs. I give F a lot of credit for the dedication he's shown over this time.
I definately do have a few issues though. Most pressing for me is the turning system. I'm so used to the old system, you know, when the ship would stop turning when you let go of the button. Someone said either system is usable, but as far as i've seen, that isn't true. Turning the Yaw off and on only makes a minor difference, and making it into the 1.480 turning system it DEFINATELY hasn't. I'll double check that tonight to be sure.
Jumping while going full speed? Interesting idea. Makes hunting definately different, which is both good and bad. Your less likely to track down wounded ships, so it's bad for the bloodthirsty of the community. However, with the ships actually COSTING something now, it's good, especially for those with lesser ranks and credits, for ships are not a dime a dozen anymore.
I give a perfect 10 to the idea of technology levels. I've heard the grumblings, like " Why do i need a tech level of 70 for cruisers, thats stupid".... On the contrary, it seems perfectly realistic that the bigger the ship, and with it more powerful weapons obviously, should come the need for better technology. I like it. It also adds strategy to the game. Think for instance, there are only certain planets that will be able to hold the population and technology needed for dreadnaughts and space stations. Those planets become far more valuable and will need to be protected as such. on another note, take for instance Cygnus, which has all barren planets. If any one of those planets could actually hold a starport that could have that kind of production, there would basically be no room left for defense, so people would actually have to patrol the sector and protect it, which is a normal aspect of defending territory, even if people would concieve it as being "boring". Again, your getting change, which is what you asked for. I personally like it.
Everone should definately remember the overall idea of these changes. Scenario will be gone, Sooner than you think. These changes are ALL being designed in the idea of the game the way it was intended, in the Metaverse. For those players that have no clue about MV, or have never visited it, you better get acquainted with it, because that is where we will all be playing eventually, Hopefully sooner rather than later for this pilot.
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Rogue Spear
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 20, 2002
Posts: 848
From: Texas
| Posted: 2004-02-13 12:15
Well I dont care what anyone says, if Bito gives me permission to flame him than I sure as heck will. Ok, here it goes....
Bito you suck!
Ok thats better.
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-=Arch=-
Cadet
Joined: July 10, 2002
Posts: 214
From: *CLASSIFIED*
| Posted: 2004-02-13 12:18
And the Jump from NAV screen is still NOT implemented .......
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Ashatwork
Cadet
Joined: April 03, 2003
Posts: 116
| Posted: 2004-02-13 13:37
What's this turning using the arrow keys that everyone is talking about?!?!
I've always used wasd to fly my ship.
Apparently the 'new' turning system = wasd controls
But the arrow keys are better?
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2004-02-13 13:37
Quote:
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On 2004-02-13 12:18, -=Arch=- wrote:
And the Jump from NAV screen is still NOT implemented .......
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That's kind of behind other things, like stability, sync issues, and zone transfers.
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JackSwift
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 30, 2002
Posts: 1806
From: Where the Sun dont Shine (Seattle-ish)
| Posted: 2004-02-13 14:22
I agree with what Bito was saying about the turning system and the chat.
I like my arrow keys. I don't want to have to press a special "stop turn" button to stop turning. Please get that in as soon as you can. Nothing more I can think of to say about that.
Ok, now about the chat... I can see why some people aren't happy, but being spammed from all the way across the MV is far worse. If there was someway to keep the chat the same way it is now (system-wide instead of MV-wide) and just add a /faction command, I think pretty much everyone would be happy. I like /e chat. I really do. I'm also probably the one of the few people who use it to spice up (not flame and whatnot, although I have done that a few times) a boring situation with funny conversation. With this new chat system, I'll probably replace /e with /send clan PB/GTN (if /send clan (clan name) is still implemented).
Always funny to tell GTN that I told my team we shouldn't jump to Ooi... as they have 6 EAD's and a couple cruisers, while be just have Bito in a station, 3 AC's and myself in a dictor for support. Then watch everyone jump to Ooi anyways and die. Instead of saying, "Oh you guys suck! Flux is cheap! UGTO is unfair!" I make the other side laugh... no instigating remarks. In response I get funny comments instead of the usual retort to hotheads, "Shut up you n00b." It makes the game more fun for everyone.
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Tbone
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-02-13 14:43
Quote:
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On 2004-02-13 14:22, JackSwift wrote:
Always funny to tell GTN that I told my team we shouldn't jump to Ooi... as they have 6 EAD's and a couple cruisers, while be just have Bito in a station, 3 AC's and myself in a dictor for support.
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Stupid Bito made me lose my AM mine cruiser on that attack. Good thing I had back-up mines 
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Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2004-02-13 14:58
My sole complaint about Beta is the turning system. I used the arrow keys to control me ship 90% of the time, it was much easier and simpler than a rudder system, which I did use for precise maneuvers, like lining up for a bomb run etc.
As for tracking, it's actually easier because, when you go to the nav map, you can see the ship's contrail ALL THE WAY to where it's going, no matter how far it jumps. The thing that makes it harder is ships can jump while moving and keep mving when the jump's complete, so it's harder to Pjump them evenif you do know exactly where they went, so in my opinion jumping and tracking is well balanced.
People have also complained that planetary dictors are of no use any more because a ship moving full speed will jump over a thousand GU away anyway.
I beg to differ.
With this new jumping system a stationary ship will almost always jump within orbit distance so dictors are still quite essential.
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[ This Message was edited by: Bobamelius on 2004-02-13 15:04 ]
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