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Self-destruct. |
HellGremlin
Cadet
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 91
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
|  Posted: 2003-06-26 19:35
I believe the intent of Self-Destruct was a.) To give people an option to kamikaze an enemy, b.) To give people an option to kill themselves if they run out of fuel and are stranded without supply, or just crippled.
This intent has been completely forgotten.
Nowadays, players use Self-Destruct maliciously to avoid having a kill result tacked on to their record, and to avoid giving their opponent their well deserved kill. This is quite infuriating to someone like me, especially if they've just worked their ass off to defeat a superior ship.
My suggestion:
- Self-Destruct only becomes an option if the ship has not fired or been fired upon in the past minute, UNLESS:
- Ship attempting to Self-Destruct is at 15% hull or less, and 50m away from an enemy ship.
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'Good day, gentlemen. Time to die.' - Attributed to Warmaster
Harlan Stratholme of the UGTO Strategic Command at the Battle
of Procyon, 2267.
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Bad_Skeelz
Cadet
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 359
From: The Lobby
| Posted: 2003-06-26 19:39
The whole point of SDing (also known as scuttling) is to prevent teh capture of your ship or, in the Graf Spees case, denying the nemy the pleasure of sinking it. I SD because I don't think people attacking someone with 5 of their friends deserve a kill. Plus kills dont give pres anyway, the actual hull damage does. I also try to SD at the last possible second so you still get decent pres and to annoy you even more.
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I didn't say they were lobsters, I said they reminded me of lobsters.
-Excerpt from Vice Admiral Skeelz's court-martial regarding the malignant boiling and eating of K'luth prisoners of war.
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HellGremlin
Cadet
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 91
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
| Posted: 2003-06-26 19:42
Case in point. You do it to annoy, with malicious intent. You do it to cause grief.
I get banned for less.
_________________
'Good day, gentlemen. Time to die.' - Attributed to Warmaster
Harlan Stratholme of the UGTO Strategic Command at the Battle
of Procyon, 2267.
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Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
| Posted: 2003-06-26 19:44
A.) At 15% hull, it is unlikely you will complete a self destruct counter.
B.) You get a "Death" on your record anyways. You just also get an SD.
C.) Kills mean squat.
D.) The vast majority of kills are accomplished by groups, robbing the individual 'kill' token of any meaning.
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einie{bad_boy_o_space}
Cadet
Joined: January 05, 2003
Posts: 149
From: Oregon,USA
| Posted: 2003-06-26 19:56
I often SD when outnumbered and way down on shields with all my systems disabled. If I cna make the countdown and deprive the enemies of a kill - it is a minor victory. Often as not, by the time the timer has hit 0 someone has closed real close trying to get the kill and I inflict damage e.g your kamakazi scenario. So, just pretend I *meant" to do that - becuase I did.
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Tiggy
Midshipman
Terra Squadron
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 282
From: Western Australia
| Posted: 2003-06-26 20:01
If anything, I think that self destruct counters should be made even longer (I'm not sure how long it actually is, but 15-30 seconds would be good.)
Other than that, I think SDs should stay the same.
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Bad_Skeelz
Cadet
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 359
From: The Lobby
| Posted: 2003-06-26 20:12
If we went around banning everyone for causing grief we would have to ban everyone with a kill (cause dieing is annoying and causes greif), miners (because they cause us to die), and mods (cause they banned us and caused greif). From what I've heard you were banned cause you camped newbs and shot your mouth off about.
_________________
I didn't say they were lobsters, I said they reminded me of lobsters.
-Excerpt from Vice Admiral Skeelz's court-martial regarding the malignant boiling and eating of K'luth prisoners of war.
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HellGremlin
Cadet
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 91
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
| Posted: 2003-06-26 20:42
Then you heard wrong.
I see by the direction this post is going, that SDing is considered acceptable. I understand, and will start doing it myself from now on. Congratulations, the cycle continues.
_________________
'Good day, gentlemen. Time to die.' - Attributed to Warmaster
Harlan Stratholme of the UGTO Strategic Command at the Battle
of Procyon, 2267.
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Firekka
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 27, 2002
Posts: 285
| Posted: 2003-06-26 20:51
When my systems are shot (mostly happens when you are badly damaged) i sd.. i consider it stranded 
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// In space the Shadows are everywhere... //
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Strategery
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: December 07, 2002
Posts: 522
From: Straight Outta Boston!
| Posted: 2003-06-26 20:58
Quote:
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On 2003-06-26 19:44, Horrible Hip-waders wrote:
B.) You get a "Death" on your record anyways. You just also get an SD.
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Wrong. Self Destructs do not count as deaths. They are only recorded in the S/D catagory
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[S.W] Grand Admiral Strategery
ICC Master Battle Strategist (ret.)
Proud Commander of the C.S.S. Ticonderoga
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NightDragon
Cadet
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 893
| Posted: 2003-06-26 21:07
i dont se whats so wrong about it
I SD for a couple reasons.
1) im at 40% hull and 0% systems, you guys cant kill me fast enough so i SD to get a new ship faster
2) HG Kluth give me grief and angry so that means we can ban all of the kluth?
3) really we already have tons of posts about people complaining about people SDing, we dont need another one
4) if you dont want us to SD kill us faster
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\"Experience is a tough teacher. She gives the test first and the lesson after.\"
~ William H. O
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HMCS-Ottawa
Cadet
Joined: July 14, 2002
Posts: 56
| Posted: 2003-06-26 21:19
Quote:
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On 2003-06-26 20:01, Tig wrote:
If anything, I think that self destruct counters should be made even longer (I'm not sure how long it actually is, but 15-30 seconds would be good.)
Other than that, I think SDs should stay the same.
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Um no, you just want the chance to finsh someone off. the point of SD is to stop the Enemy from gaining anything from the capture and/or kill.
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g0ds s0ldier
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: October 24, 2002
Posts: 954
| Posted: 2003-06-27 00:36
Quote:
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On 2003-06-26 20:42, HellGremlin wrote:
Then you heard wrong.
I see by the direction this post is going, that SDing is considered acceptable. I understand, and will start doing it myself from now on. Congratulations, the cycle continues.
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SD isnt honored by me, or alot of people i play with..i think its pretty lame and cheap...i have 11 SD's in my time playing, only about 3 are real SD's, the others are ICC pulsing my bomb clouds and 198% Planet Sheilds lagging me into Bombs...
My answer, SD is stupid and i honor none who do it just to get out the situation, if your in a big Enuff ship to do some damage and CLOSE ENUFF to to Damage, then hey do it...notice i BOLD close enuff..b/c alot of people do it when they are at 40% Hull and your about 240gu away..just lame
Personally i think it should be disabled...but either way i will still play the game and make them continue to SD, so doesnt matter.
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Pitch Black
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shadedancer
Cadet
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 497
From: Hamburg, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2003-06-27 00:44
Hmmm......
I think both sides (Attacker(s) and Defender) have flaw in their thinking:
Attacker:
It's strategically unsound to kill a enamy ship, wich is below ~15%Hull & Armor and which has probably lost a few internal systems. Unfortunately many (most?) players don't honor a strategic approach on Darkspace, but merely use it as a better FPS now-a-days.
If you do kill the enemy ship, he'll only get a newer one even faster. Maybe you take the Moddings of it (which might be in the MV a desired goal), but as you best it anyway, it can't be either a hell of a modding / or a hell of a pilot (sorry, no offence intended, just an observation, there are better and not so good players around here ), it doesn't really bring you any advantage.
Defender:
It's tactically unsound to SD. For one you take resources of your team (by taking out a new ship), which might be needed otherwise.
And Second, you loose the binding hold you got over a group of enemies, which freed assests of your team, to attack and hurt the enemy. If you succeed to bind a greater number of enemies just yourself, you inflict a disadvantage on the enemy, which might weight a lot heavier, then a single persuer of the enemy faction ever might imagine.
Conclusion to this is twofold for me:
1) The penalties for SDing aren't high enough and the resource modell is still not well enough balanced. I think taking out a new ship should be well conisdered and "SD parties" (continually fetching of big ship (aka Stations) just to SD them on the enemy) wouldn't even occur, if the resources lost for the team would be much greater. People would start to tell the offender to get lost and waste some other resources not theirs.
2) In FA and MV therefore only the more numberous(?) Team (in MV per System counted) will win, because the smaller number of ships can't form a team and a strategical / tactical thinking, which might lead to their victory.
I would like to see DS develop into a more strategical game, by making the learning curve a bit steeper, but making the game more interesting in the long run. For that, the resource system should be buffed up. It doesn't hurt anybody to wait 3 seconds to get a ship (as of 0 secs to day). At least I haven't seen a game, where ppl weren't been able to take out ships without thought to the resources after 15 minutes, which is wrong IMHO of cause!
just me €0.02
yours friendly,
shadedancer 
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Director to Bionic InduStries [BIS]
One rule: Don't be stupid!
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Ash'elth
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 07, 2002
Posts: 1128
| Posted: 2003-06-27 01:10
I've never understood why people care about who gets the kill... It only matters if you win and you send your enemies home crying.
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