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[1.481/1.482] New K'luth Cloak/ECM/ECCM Concept [6-23 UPDATED, RE-READ PLEASE] |
Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
|  Posted: 2003-06-22 16:57
Note: Some of the original (first 20 or so) replies to this post are now outdated due to continuous updates  Thank you to the players who have contributed their ideas to the original!
I have an idea that could possibly go into 1.481 or 1.482...
ECM/ECCM
Make ECM/ECCM lower/raise signature more per device running so to make them effective "psuedocloak" devices that can still be effected by enemy ECCM/ECM or sensor/antisensor bases. Also, they would still affect any uncloaked K'luth ship as it would any uncloakable ICC or UGTO ship... see below description of new cloak...
Cloak (Updated 6/23)
First of all, make the cloak have a recharge time after every time it is manually or forcibly shut down. This would last about five seconds and give players time to blast the K'luth and, if the K'luth were silly enough to get close, do some direct damage to the cloak via systems targetting. Make Cloak TOTALLY impervious to ECCM/ECM/Scanners run by player ships. However, require the player to totally disengage it (as in ship becomes visible) when weapons are fired. It could re-engage as soon as the cloak recharges, as long as weapons have finished firing (6-23 Update: Note the lack of dependency between weapon charging and cloak charging/usability). The cloak device would dull out like an out-of-range jump drive (1.481 jump drives do this) until weapons finish firing. The Update (6/23) to this suggestion would not allow K'luth to just fire torpedoes and virtually remain hidden, which under the original suggestion was a bad contributor to balance.
Sensor Bases
Make planetary sensor bases the only device that can override and disengage any K'luth cloak in the area. A message much like the "You are entering the safe zone" can appear "You are entering a sensor field. Your cloak has disengaged." The range on this field could be set to whatever the devs feel is necessary.
Consider the implications of this. This would allow K'luth their hit-and-run strategy that they are meant to use, yet would still allow a way for them to be detected. It would let them become totally visible the moment they fire weapons, allowing a small but reasonable window for the opposing team to do damage.
It would make ECM/ECCM totally unrelated to Cloak, giving the K'luth an appropriate balance advantage. Sensors aren't supposed to pick up cloaks. That's the whole idea. Cloak. Planetary sensors, however, could do so in order to have a means for detecting approaching planet-capture forces.
[Addition to Original Suggestion]
Detector Device
Create a ship (or use it in the same slot as the interdictor) that requires a decently high rank, some decent badges, and doesn't have a good arsenal to fight with (like the interdictor). This would function like a Sensor Base (the version of the Sensor Base written above) and decloak any K'luth ships within a certain radius (preferably 500 gu or somewhat closer, not 1000... give em a chance to get close). Make it use a lot of energy so that the ship cannot move too quickly before drainage starts to occur.
Manual Decloak When Firing
Force K'luth to manually decloak their vessels before they can fire. If their cloak is active, Spacebar simply won't do jack  Update 6/23 Added this to the original suggestion text.
Feedback please!
-Dem
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[ This Message was edited by: Demorian [Ally IU] on 2003-06-23 10:07 ]
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DJ GothThug
Cadet
Joined: October 20, 2002
Posts: 456
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:00
i agree with the ship Sensors but planetetary UH NO!
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OFP
Cadet
Joined: February 10, 2002
Posts: 919
From: USA
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:00
don't like it
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:00
i like that... i like alot!!
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:01
Excellent idea Demorian. Although to balance it slightly you may want an anticloak device that can go on a specific ship like a dictor or command dread only...
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:07
nah. that would make the k'luth get a anti-anti cloak thingy device and where are we then?
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Darkness
Cadet
Joined: November 22, 2002
Posts: 17
From: USA
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:15
Ok Demorian that sounds like a good idea. Take out barracks rotations, take out ECM forts, but LEAVE cl2ks, and add that cloaking suggestion. That would make it much much more balanced. That way we can hit HARD and run away well. I would leave the armor/hull because at the moment it is easy to kill them. I would leave the cl2ks though because it enables you to hit hard. Run in... launch the cl2ks at 250 go while closeing at 20 gu a second by the time they are done you are behind them then jump back out. Perfect strategy. Good idea. (Please leave the cl2ks, the disruptors look like ****)
Darkness
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Darkness
Cadet
Joined: November 22, 2002
Posts: 17
From: USA
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:19
I had another idea/question. I was which drained more energy the K'luth cloak or ECM? I am quite curious. Also does the energy used on cloak change from ship to ship? On a ganglia it takes your signature down by 10 versus on a scout it does not change your signature at all.
Darkness
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:30
ok. so u want CL2k's coz they "look good"??????????
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Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:30
New changes added...
*bump*
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NightDragon
Cadet
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 893
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:43
I like this idea.
I think if anything you sould make that into the Command ships, they are sort of the Comand and contorl of the battle feild, if anything they are support craft.
Thats why i like how they are now, make there rank Admiral, let them keep all the stuff they have now so they can do alittle of everything, maybe not build, but the 1 supply really isnt enough to repair alot of hull damage, just enough to refuel and reload ships.
Over all the ideas are great
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Barthezzz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 31, 2001
Posts: 5630
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2003-06-22 17:53
Interesting idea accept for 1 thing.
When we are sitting in space with a dicter and we can only see K'luth Dessies at 500 Gu away wouldnt that pretty much remove the point of even getting a ship?
Since they would apear at 500 Gu away that means they are almoast is Torp range so before we could even get our ships moving we would be down to 50% hull...
And yeah i do agree that K'luth should have a decent cloak and they are suuposed to have a lot of firepower but this would really give them an advantage...
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[ This Message was edited by: Barthezzz [No Ally] on 2003-06-22 17:56 ]
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2003-06-22 18:00
hmm.-...... to fire torpedos takes a split second... noone would ever be able to shoot back....
even if we take recharge time too, its still not enough time...
hit and run is:
Go to enemy, alpha them and run like hell cuz youre not cloacked anymore.
with your ideas it would change into:
Go to enemy, alpha them and turn to repeat that, because noone can ever shoot you....
in every game i know where total-nondetectable-cloacking thingis were included, those were almost unstoppable.
Remember Starfleet academy anyone?
To a degree Bridge commander too.
Both had tota lundetectable ships, and gues what, those ships owned.
I say remove kluth cloack from the game.
Give the kluth another advantage that suits the hit and run theme.
What about a 5-10 Seconds reflection shild that reflects 25-50 % of the damage dealt back to the attacker, thus lowering the damage taken from that attacker and hit him back?
Fact: You cannot "balance" non detectable cloack that works in combat. it will either be overpowered or useless.
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Barthezzz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 31, 2001
Posts: 5630
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2003-06-22 18:21
Quote:
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On 2003-06-22 18:00, Daimen wrote:
Fact: You cannot "balance" non detectable cloack that works in combat. it will either be overpowered or useless.
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Actually this is a good point.
I remember quite a while ago i got a demo from ST Bridge Commander.
As everybody knows Romulans have cloak, though they have to trade in firepower for this.
Decloaking, Shooting someone, cloaking, moving around, Decloaking, Shooting someone, cloaking, moving around, etc. Took a while before you could kill an enemy but using the cloak you could actually beat a pretty strong enemy.
Anyhow my point in this is that you cant have a good cloak and firePower, like Daimen said. I think F is going to have to pick 1 for K'luth or they will always have to be Medium...
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2003-06-22 20:05
erm, so basically all kluth would have to do is not use ruptors and they could blink in and out of cloak every 1 second while pummeling you with torps.... mmm, fun
generally dont like it, i think we should wait for after next 2 patches now before suggesting too much beyond weapons etc. for the increased tech trees
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