-mac-
Cadet
Joined: July 23, 2001
Posts: 159
From: California
|  Posted: 2002-01-07 15:26
* Joining 'Moderator Meeting'...
[19:02:57 07/01/02] * [eXS]Geo greets everyone in this room ...
19:03:03 [MoA]Soul132: "hi faustus"
19:03:08 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "hoi hoi re bumble"
19:03:11 [MoA]Bumblebee: "hokka faustus, hokka sun, hokka rest"
19:03:12 [eXS]Hydronix: "hi all"
19:03:18 [MoA]FrankySZ: "hi geo"
[19:03:24 07/01/02] * [Evil]MaDB|otcH passes faustus some rasberry tea
19:03:26 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "good stuff"
19:03:33 Selvarian: "yes, i am actually here"
19:03:35 Yidam: "hi hydronix"
19:03:44 [eXS]Hydronix: "hi yidam"
19:03:46 [eXS]Hydronix: "mom"
19:03:50 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "hi all"
19:03:58 [PS]sunshine: "heya"
19:04:01 [eXS]Hydronix: "re"
19:04:02 [PS]Faustus: "oh... ok..."
19:04:07 Yidam: "hello dead"
19:04:31 Selvarian: "So, what's the agenda"
19:05:06 [MoA]Spirit: "Greetings to all"
19:05:14 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "..."
19:05:18 [PB]Dalle: "greetings"
19:05:24 [MoA]FrankySZ: "hi"
19:05:25 [MoA]Bumblebee: "hokka spirit"
19:06:01 [GER]Samweis: "greetings from me to all and hopefully greetings from all to everyone  "
19:06:16 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "lol"
19:06:21 [MoA]Bumblebee: "lol"
19:06:21 [MoA]FrankySZ: "lol"
[19:06:22 07/01/02] * [BIS]Bionicman start to tap tap tap
19:06:22 [MoA]Soul132: "lol"
19:06:23 [MoA]Gatos: "lol"
19:06:40 [PS]sunshine: "lol @sam"
19:07:04 [PS]sunshine: "anythink you want to talk about first faustus?!"
19:07:04 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "so lets go?"
19:07:16 Selvarian: "We are all here, yes? If we don't have a specific agenda, I would like to take the floor for a moment"
19:07:40 [PS]Faustus: "nope nothing from me... I'm working on code, so I'll be watching.. "
[19:07:41 07/01/02] * [Evil]MaDB|otcH gives selv some tiles
19:07:46 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "take all the floor you want"
19:07:48 [MoA]Bumblebee: "bye selv  ))"
[19:07:59 07/01/02] * [Evil]Disgruntled Doug has entered the room...
19:08:04 Selvarian: "bye?"
[19:08:12 07/01/02] * [DI]-mac- hands Selvarian a mop and bucket ... it needs cleaning first 
19:08:20 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "lol"
19:08:20 [GER]Samweis: "@faustus: what about a list of updates with details how to use the new things like trading so we can better test it?"
19:08:28 [MoA]Bumblebee: "only point from me - how to "lure" more plyer in the game"
19:08:34 Selvarian: "Well, basically it has to do with the exploiting situation."
19:08:38 [BIS]Bionicman: "return the floor when done plz i hate swing around in thin air"
19:09:07 [PS]sunshine: "good point to start i'd say..."
19:09:16 [MoA]Bumblebee: "well - you go and take the floor "
[19:09:25 07/01/02] * [BIS]Bionicman ...
19:10:15 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "also i want to talk about the game manual after"
19:10:18 [MoA]Bumblebee: "silence??"
19:10:20 Selvarian: "Basically, I am adding language to the RoC to define, in general, what exploiting is and for specific examples that have been uncovered so far."
19:10:58 Selvarian: "Basically, I am defining exploiting as playing the game system as opposed to playing the game."
19:10:59 [MoA]Bumblebee: "good, selv - tnx."
19:11:24 [PB]Dalle: ""
19:11:38 [MoA]Spirit: "good but surely very difficult"
19:11:48 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "i think the RoC link shoul be a little bit higher at the site"
19:12:07 Selvarian: "This allows us to set a basic standard that we can use to determine whether or not a specific set of behavior is an exploit or not."
19:12:47 [ C `] Faravid: "dwaren coming in 5 mins"
19:12:48 [PS]sunshine: "@pat a redesign of the page is already in progress"
19:12:55 Taelron: "becareful to leave it as an outline, if we state explicits in the RoC it could create loopholes..."
19:12:56 [PS]Faustus: "@selv... just to address the roc and manual... StarDust is currently doing a complete redesign of the website ... eveything is going to be in the DB from now on... including the manual and roc... so it can be edited online... "
19:12:58 [MoA]Patlukowsky: ":))"
19:13:06 [ C `] Faravid: "dwarden*"
19:13:12 Selvarian: "Cool."
19:13:22 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "okay"
19:13:29 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "since fausrus mentioned manual"
19:13:36 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "id like to bring it up"
19:13:49 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "basically the one up at the moment, well kind of sucks"
19:14:07 [PS]Faustus: "@mad... K, tell me something I DONT already know "
19:14:07 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "troutnija, vinco and me started redesigning one during the late stages of the beta"
19:14:15 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "buthe dissapeared"
19:14:15 [PS]sunshine: "hehe"
19:14:22 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "and vinco is away also"
19:14:35 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "im willing to lead a new redesign after the launch of 1.3"
19:14:39 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "but i need help with it"
19:14:42 Shigernafy: "I can try to pitch in for some of it.."
19:14:51 [BIS]Bionicman: "vinc is back i think"
19:14:55 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "from experienced players who know the game and are willng to put it on paper"
19:15:02 Selvarian: "Well, I am looking for commentary on the exploitation definition AND I need EVERYONE to help documment existing cases of exploitation, even back in to the open beta."
19:15:03 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "he is still not perm back"
19:15:05 [PS]Faustus: "@mad... basically, after StarDust is finished... I'll be redoing the manual myself... if you have text to contrubute, then email it to me and save me some time, otherwise I'm going to revise the manual completely after 1.3 release.."
19:15:07 Shigernafy: "oh, well.. "
19:15:10 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "and he doesnt have time to work on the manual"
19:15:16 Taelron: "I'll throw in my two cents in if needed"
19:15:27 [PS]Faustus: "@mad... anyway, drop the manual subject for now... let selv continue"
19:15:33 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "well i have section 5 done"
19:15:43 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "all i need to is revise for new beta"
19:15:48 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "erm revision"
[19:15:52 07/01/02] * [Evil]MaDB|otcH steps down
19:15:58 [BIS]Bionicman: "you can count me in i all ready have some basic gameplay stuff to get up soon"
19:15:59 Taelron: "@Faust any chance of putting the Map Editor Guide I drafted up as a download until a better one is made?"
19:16:04 Selvarian: "Anything that is to be considered a current "exploit" needs to be documented in the RoC>"
19:16:14 Taelron: "oops sorry Selv go on"
19:16:49 [BIS]Bionicman: "i agree with selv but we should not make it to tight"
19:17:01 [ C `] Faravid: "i got a map editor tutorial in my site, going to add missing things to it soon"
19:17:19 Taelron: "if we state to many "Specifics" players may try to argue loopholes"
19:17:30 [BIS]shadedancer: "selv: ok, so whenever we find one, or can think of one we email you? "
19:17:37 [PS]sunshine: "true taelron"
19:17:56 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "okay what are exploits"
19:17:59 Selvarian: "Post it in the priv moderator forum."
19:17:59 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "ping pong caps"
19:18:02 Shigernafy: "just state that the list is just an example, and we can argue for "the spirit of the RoC" - not perfect but it could/should? work"
19:18:07 [BIS]shadedancer: "And we definitly need an ELSE clause, which takes care of exploits not specifically mentioned"
19:18:07 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "mass repair of ships"
19:18:35 [PS]sunshine: "until the new website is online we should collect them in the priv forum, or what do you think?"
19:18:46 [BIS]Bionicman: "we dont need to state the known exploites in here do we we all know them ?"
19:18:49 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "agree"
19:18:52 Selvarian: "Mad -> Playing the game system as opposed to playing the game."
19:18:55 [MoA]FrankySZ: "agree sun"
19:18:58 [MoA]Bumblebee: "agree"
19:18:59 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "sun id almost go as far as having a sep forum"
19:18:59 [MoA]Soul132: "agree @sun"
19:27:10 [DI]-mac-: "agree w/sunshine"
19:19:13 Selvarian: "No, just post them in the thread I started in the priv mod forum"
19:19:14 [PB]Dalle: "i'd like to be told what they are"
19:19:23 Teager: "ack, sorry for my lateness...."
19:19:37 [PS]sunshine: "not another forum with restricted access "
[19:19:39 07/01/02] * Shigernafy slaps [PB]Dalle in the head...
19:19:45 [ C `] Dwarden: "hi i'm sorry i'm doing NT5.1 experiments..."
19:20:03 Shigernafy: "xp?"
19:20:11 [PS]sunshine: "selv has already opened a thread.. let's use this one"
19:20:15 Smokey: "yeah"
19:20:17 [GER]Samweis: "windows blackcomb "
[19:20:22 07/01/02] * [ C `] Dwarden says HI all ...
19:20:29 [ C `] Dwarden: "thats NT 6.0"
[19:20:36 07/01/02] * [BIS]Bionicman gives dward a brand new unopend version of windows 3.1
19:20:36 Selvarian: "Dalle -> That is why we're going to document as many as possible."
19:20:37 Shigernafy: "it works on my system... "
19:20:39 [MoA]FrankySZ: "hi dwarden"
19:20:40 [GER]Samweis: "i know "
19:20:44 [MoA]Bumblebee: "back to topic please"
19:20:55 [Evil]Evil Bob: "plesae keep the emotes to a minimum during mod meetings and stay on topic..."
19:21:09 Selvarian: "In general, if the intent of someone's behavior is to simply increase their stats and has no real in-game explanation, then they are exploiting."
19:21:20 [eXS]Hydronix: "i got a question about the mv"
19:21:29 [BIS]shadedancer: "selv: true"
19:21:44 [MoA]Bumblebee: "yep - agree - selv"
19:21:52 Selvarian: "That is what I mean by playing the game system as opposed to playing the game."
19:21:56 [PS]Faustus: "agreed.."
19:21:58 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "selv"
19:22:00 Shigernafy: "what about for others? Wouldn't the person getting hurt for the supplier (for example) be exploiting too..?"
19:22:03 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "running out of the gate"
19:22:07 Selvarian: "Everyone knows that repairing someone gives youprestige."
19:22:10 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "jumping to a fight"
19:22:14 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "firing a couple of shots"
[19:22:19 07/01/02] * [PB]Snafu has entered the room...
19:22:21 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "then running back and getting a new s*** is an explot?"
19:22:40 [PB]Snafu: "sorry im late was signing the town frunk up for DS"
19:22:44 [PB]Snafu: "drunk"
19:22:57 Selvarian: "However, if you are jumping around in a dread, soaking up damage for the sole reason to go back to a supply ship and give them the prestige for repeairing you, that can be considered exploiting"
19:23:14 [BIS]Bionicman: "but what can we as mods actuly do about it with out having to write 10 pages of explaning in the forum ?"
19:23:43 [BIS]shadedancer: "selv: last point is difficult to prove, but an exploit anyway, agreed."
19:31:59 [DI]-mac-: "sometimes the exploit will be obvious, other times not ... just have to keep your eyes open and ear to the ground"
19:23:57 Taelron: "If we actually witness someone saying, Come shoot me for pres then we know something is up"
19:24:17 Selvarian: "It's sometimes a fine line, but that is why you have to weigh the two potential explanations of the player behavior. If it seems more likely that they are exploiting than doing anything productive in the game, then you have your answer."
19:24:42 [PS]sunshine: "take screenshoots to prove what happened... or ask another mod to assist you"
19:24:54 [Evil]Evil Bob: "it's a big grey area most of the time, hard to really prove unless you happen to hear the msg traffic indicating their intentions."
19:24:59 Selvarian: "Sometimes it takes a lot of investigation (The latest Demorian/GTN exploit, for example)"
19:25:05 Taelron: "ie the dread sits there and lets itself get damaged then its pretty suspicious... but if its a major battle then its probably not"
19:25:12 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "also im afraid the new ship capture system might bring in some exploitation"
19:25:40 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "are you going to put in anything about moderator exploits in the RoC?"
19:25:50 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "Like use of the monsters?"
19:25:55 [BIS]Bionicman: "i remeber what happend last time we tryed the ship capture on hehe"
19:25:56 Selvarian: "Until Faustus implements an omniscient prestige system that takes into account player intentions, there will ALWAYS be exploits."
19:25:59 [eXS]Hydronix: "what about the debug.mis to proofe it?"
19:26:13 [PS]sunshine: "faustus, an official word from you what'll happen once a group of exploiteers got uncovered?"
19:26:16 [PB]Dalle: "exploiting wont happen in MV unless the clans make an alliance and do the soak damage trick"
19:26:20 Selvarian: "IE, there will ALWAYS be exploits.  )"
19:26:27 [MoA]Spirit: "mod = player so no special for us"
19:26:31 [MoA]Bumblebee: "in my eyes - mod are player like others - so same rules for them"
19:26:34 Taelron: "As far as Ship Cap exploits go, we may have to revist the Ships Crew idea again.. IE ships have a crew rating that affect systems and before it can be capped the crew has to be killed... either that or we need to cap systems ie engineering, bridge etc..."
19:26:34 Shigernafy: "does anyone still use monsters? I find them to be kinda weak and slow, and I ALWAYS seem to get desync'd..."
19:26:59 [MoA]FrankySZ: "agree Bumble and Spirit"
19:27:04 [PB]Snafu: "theres always going to be a person or a group of people who try to get a r o u n d the game"
19:27:13 Selvarian: "I think that Demorian had a good piece of advice for how to "properly" play monsters in the priv mod forum. I may add it to the RoC in an appendix."
19:27:28 [ C `] Faravid: "energy and crystalline goes out of sync easily when moving faster than 50"
19:27:32 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "monsters are fun"
19:27:42 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "but you need a higher variety"
19:27:47 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "ya the entities lag me"
19:27:49 [PS]Faustus: "@sun... basically, this has to be judged on a case-by-case basis... obvisouly, with such low subscriber numebers, I'm not really kean on banning anyone unless they really doing something bad that is ruining the game for others."
19:27:49 [BIS]Bionicman: "we are starting an roc on the use of monsters basic set of how to fly them"
19:27:56 [eXS]Geo: "yesterday I equipped a cruiser with *mouth beams* ... that ship was REALLY powerful"
19:28:01 Selvarian: "Yes, mods are players in the eyes of the RoC, save for one important difference: There's a significantly more critical eye watching mods."
19:28:05 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "like using a C. E. to grab some planet damage, or using push/ban abilities to give your faction the edge"
19:28:10 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "right"
19:28:13 [eXS]Geo: "so that might be an exploit"
19:28:20 Shigernafy: "I used to enjoy them, but I always get out of sync, so either planets jump at me from 500gu away or I can't get back out the gate..."
19:28:26 Taelron: "Monsters should not be tied to a faction, we should have to pick them sepperately at logon just like factions, this will stop someone from playing icc, switching to monster to rape a utgo planet, then come back as icc again to cap"
19:28:29 Selvarian: "I think we need to follow the standard procedure as outlined in the RoC, sun."
19:28:33 [MoA]Bumblebee: "one reason more for us to be very carefull - selv"
19:28:42 [ C `] Faravid: "i made a ship with interdictor, ELF and automated hull repair"
19:28:57 Selvarian: "Unless it is a critical issue, ask them to stop, warn them, push them, ban them, expel them."
19:29:02 [eXS]Geo: "@Fara"
19:29:05 [PS]sunshine: "prestige penalty, or reset of the prestige-category that was pushed up by this exploit"
19:29:09 [eXS]Geo: "@Fara: nice "
19:29:29 [MoA]Bumblebee: "conzentrate on the topic - please"
19:37:39 [DI]-mac-: "reset of exploited category sounds like a better idea than banning"
[19:29:35 07/01/02] * Gideon has entered the room...
19:29:39 Selvarian: "Faustus, can you give us some insight as to what happened with the JK clan and their exploiting?"
19:29:40 [eXS]Geo: "I agree with sun!"
19:29:55 [MoA]Bumblebee: "and / or use whisper for the private ones"
19:30:15 [MoA]Lord Binary: "agree mac"
19:30:36 Selvarian: "I can add other forms of punishment to the RoC. partial/total prestige resets, clan disbandment, clan member expulsion, etc."
19:31:14 [=USO=]Kharn: "o punish i would sugest a demotion ie lt cmd to 2nd lt etc..."
19:31:23 Selvarian: "Kamikaze Chicken was using what happened to them to serve as a precedent for punishing the GTN clan for the latest situation."
19:31:49 Selvarian: "..and I had no info on the situation."
19:32:14 Selvarian: "Also, we DESPERATELY NEED access to the server chat logs. They need to be archived as well."
19:32:22 [PS]sunshine: "afk, don't run away "
19:32:41 Taelron: "I agree, I asked about that before, a way for the logs to be stored at least 3 days..."
19:33:14 [eXS]Hydronix: "there will be a problem, when the mv is permanent on 100%"
19:33:19 Selvarian: "Faustus? You still there?"
19:33:27 [PS]Faustus: "Yep... selv"
19:33:34 [ C `] Dwarden: "i really missing ability to save ANY chatlog"
19:33:37 Selvarian: "Any comments?"
19:33:44 Taelron: "Make sure it captures all message traffic, even targeted messages.. I noted on server console you only saw basic comm, yells, and enemy, but no specific /t traffic"
19:33:44 [eXS]Hydronix: "it will be a heaven for cheaters"
19:34:15 Selvarian: "Yes, all messages need to be captured, including system messages."
19:34:18 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "isnt that an invasion of privacy"
19:34:29 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "i think the user has to agree to be logged before you can do it"
19:34:33 [GER]Samweis: "@taelron: then you have also to record the /send command if the player is on a server"
19:34:36 Selvarian: "There is no expectation of privacy in DarkSpace"
19:34:38 Taelron: "No, especially if its stated in the RoC"
19:34:41 D3VaST8D: "having access to private /t msgs doesn't sound god to me"
19:34:43 [PB]Dalle: "@hydro explain ureself and specify"
19:42:47 [DI]-mac-: "not while using PaleStar facitilites and software"
19:34:44 Gideon: "Mad, no it isnt"
19:34:44 [PS]Faustus: "Well, I can put better communications logging on my list... but I can't get to that very soon, too much other stuff of higher priority right now.."
19:34:47 Selvarian: "It is"
19:34:50 [Evil]Evil Bob: "nope, since it's all spoken in a public server, there is no privacy involved."
19:35:05 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "evil bob"
19:35:09 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "the /t traffic"
19:35:11 [eXS]Hydronix: "when the MV is permanent on 100% prestige, then 2 guys can look for a lonely place"
19:35:17 [eXS]Hydronix: "take 2 near planets"
19:35:17 Taelron: "I know Sam, didnt say it would be easy, but there are times we need it..."
19:35:23 [eXS]Hydronix: "build depots on it"
19:35:23 Selvarian: "OK. What about the issue with the JK clan?"
19:35:23 Gideon: "Just like there is no invasion of privacy if the phone company listens in on your call."
19:35:25 [eXS]Hydronix: "take fighters"
19:35:30 [eXS]Hydronix: "and shoot on each other"
19:35:31 [eXS]Hydronix: "tataaa"
19:35:35 [PS]Faustus: "JK????"
19:35:35 Gideon: "Technically you are renting the service."
19:35:36 [GER]Samweis: "right taelron"
19:35:36 [eXS]Hydronix: "prestige en masse"
19:35:40 Taelron: "And a way for the Mod to pull it up in game "
19:35:42 Chromix: "yep as noone currently uses the MV its not that a good idea to give 100% pres"
19:35:43 Selvarian: "Wait. That is not important right now. I'll chat with you about it later"
19:35:44 Gideon: "It does not belong to you."
19:36:09 [Evil]Evil Bob: "'d like to hear it Selv"
19:36:14 [PS]Faustus: "AFK..."
19:36:14 [eXS]Hydronix: "i dont like the 100% idea"
19:36:16 [PS]Faustus: "BRB"
19:36:19 Taelron: "just fyi, it is legal to record any conversion as long as 1 party knows about the recording... one of those legal loop holes"
19:36:23 [GER]Samweis: "@faust: it seems there are now not all players displayed while using F9 key. only the own fraction"
19:36:41 Selvarian: "ANYway. Everyone's help with the exploit definition is needed. That's all I think I needed to say on that subject."
19:36:47 Gideon: "Except where exempted by specifice state or national law."
19:36:53 [ C `] Dwarden: "F9 key show only 1/3 of players"
19:36:55 D3VaST8D: "Taelron... not in all countries"
19:37:12 [ C `] Faravid: "F9 shows only players you have seen in-game"
19:45:16 [DI]-mac-: "brb as well, afk - will catch up"
19:37:20 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "i think faustus would have to add a clause to the user agreement durting install"
19:37:25 Gideon: "However, there are NO laws governing privacy on the internet."
19:37:29 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "so the player KNOWS he will be logged"
19:37:32 Selvarian: "I am sorry, but the servers and rules are located in the US. There is NO guarantee of privacy."
19:37:39 [PB]Dalle: "@hydro i'm more worried about the lonely bombing...2 bombers cruzs find a system with no players in it and bomb everything, since were not enough players to fill it all up servers will be left aside with only but a few players in it."
19:37:39 [BIS]Bionicman: "@gidion nice to have you here but it is a mod meeting so any comments post it in the forum"
19:37:49 [PB]Snafu: "privacy is lost when you enter a chatroom"
19:37:57 Selvarian: "The RoC has very specific and complete disclaimers realted to privacy."
19:37:58 Gideon: "Gotcha"
19:38:18 [MoA]Spirit: "@Dalle why u worry u do the same or?"
19:38:31 [eXS]Hydronix: "@dalle: but the most wanted in this game is ship damage...you will get as much as you want"
19:38:58 [PB]Dalle: "@spirit are you saying i'm cheating?"
19:39:37 [MoA]Spirit: "no, just u play for prestige"
19:39:46 [BIS]Bionicman: "i surgest when the new changes ggets in S! server gets droped and a demo server gets up for new players to play on so most players over s2 lvl go into the mv"
19:39:51 [PB]Dalle: "@spirit is there anything else to play for?"
19:39:59 [PB]Snafu: "we all play for prestige in one way oe another"
19:40:02 [MoA]Bumblebee: "well it depends @dalle"
19:40:06 Selvarian: "It doesn't matter if another country has laws granting such. If there is a conflict between the RoC, International Law, and US Law, the priority is US Law, RoC, then International Law. That means if the RoC can't be reconciled with the laws of another country, then the Game will not allow players from that country."
19:40:13 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "i play for kamikaze "
19:40:15 Shigernafy: "nah, look at my profile.. "
19:40:24 [MoA]Bumblebee: "there are different styles of playing - i guess"
19:40:53 [PB]Dalle: "@spirit right now there's nothing to play for but prestige....the planets you capture in the scenerio you dont get to keep. and you dont need them since ships dont costs res. also you only get 4.0 for winning a map. "
19:40:57 [MoA]Bumblebee: "one prefere the more - well - harsh style - the other not"
19:41:07 [eXS]Geo: "@Selv: then it should a an US game only..."
19:41:14 [ C `] Dwarden: "man o man i think i buy 21" to be able read fonts on DS site"
19:41:23 [PB]Snafu: "international game"
19:41:42 [PB]Snafu: "dark spave is nothing more than a chat-room"
19:41:51 Selvarian: "Everyone OOG plays for prestige. However, you SHOULD be playing the game in the context in which it was intended."
19:42:02 [BIS]Bionicman: "Do we have other mod issiues to talk about ?"
19:42:35 [eXS]Hydronix: "what about the mv?"
19:42:48 [ C `] Dwarden: "and what about GOLD servers?"
19:43:19 Taelron: "Removing the monsters from the Factions ship list and make them only be choosen initially as you join a server to avoid the play a team, switch to monster to open an enemy planet, then play team and cap again issues"
19:43:48 Selvarian: "Geo -> my point is that, barring changing the RoC to accomodate every law in every country (not possible), the only option left is to disallow players from playing the game in the countries causing the conflict. Kinda like the situation with Yahoo, Nazi Memorabilia, and France"
19:43:55 [PB]Snafu: "I dont see a problem with the monsters as they are................"
19:44:10 [BIS]Bionicman: "monsters should be able to see all ships and fractions"
19:44:15 Taelron: "also, opening 1 official server to the demos and allow them to gain upto 60 pres maybe then switch to no gain..."
19:44:17 [ C `] Dwarden: "DISABLE chance of MAJOR beams to be used as PointDefence (not funny see two Crystal entity killing all missile in range)"
19:44:32 Selvarian: "I am not aware of any conflicts right now (not saying that there aren't any), but they have to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis."
19:44:36 [PB]Snafu: "lol"
19:44:45 Taelron: "also biological propertys of monsters should not be able to be loaded onto a ship"
19:44:52 Taelron: "ie elf..."
19:45:02 Selvarian: "DarkSpace is not set up to have different rule sets for different countries yet."
19:45:05 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "monsters should be their own faction"
19:45:15 [PB]Snafu: "as long aas the monsters are used for fun and not to gain prestige, i dont have a problem with them"
19:45:16 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "no i ike the elf"
19:45:17 [GER]Samweis: "but kluth could do this taelron "
19:45:23 [MoA]Gatos: "afk"
19:45:23 [ C `] Dwarden: "monsters can see only that what they see"
19:45:24 [GER]Samweis: "they are also biological "
19:45:24 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "there should be more non combat ships"
19:45:28 [ C `] Dwarden: "not everything"
19:45:29 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "like the interdictor"
19:45:38 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "there should be ships that do MASSIVE eccm"
19:45:41 [PS]Faustus: "K... I'm back"
19:45:41 [MoA]Bumblebee: "well - monster are yellow"
19:45:42 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "ships that leech energy"
19:45:43 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "etc"
19:45:53 [GER]Samweis: "@faust: it seems there are now not all players displayed while using F9 key. only the own fraction"
19:45:55 [MoA]Bumblebee: "all yellow - planets belong to them"
19:46:12 Selvarian: "Yeah, but they still are assigned to a faction"
19:46:18 [MoA]Bumblebee: "they ARE a faction"
19:46:20 Taelron: "i dont know if this incures FF points, but with the way it is now, i see a lot of monsters yelling "icc dont shoot me or you will get ff points"..."
19:46:21 [ C `] Faravid: "crystalline entity: destroying planet should take time, lots of it, so a faction can protect the planet"
19:46:22 [PS]Faustus: "@sam... only those with ships in-game are displayed"
19:46:22 [PB]Snafu: "only thing green for the monsters are stars and gas planets"
19:46:36 D3VaST8D: "@Selv: the question is wheter we could access private messages.... i think logs should be kept but only Big F have access to them"
19:46:39 [eXS]Geo: "I just translated our ship database...although its not finished yet, it might be quite useful: Ship database"
19:46:48 Taelron: "if the curent way does incure ff because the monster launched from the same faction then its a problem"
19:47:05 [MoA]Bumblebee: "where is the difference between choosing them at the faction screen or at the initial one??"
19:47:16 [GER]Samweis: "ok faustus"
19:47:18 Selvarian: "D3Va -> There is NO SUCH THING as a "private message" in DS. It's in the RoC."
19:47:28 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "@Faustus: how about new maps?"
19:47:31 Selvarian: "Whether it SAYS it is or not."
19:47:33 [ C `] Dwarden: "why is Gcql ignoring selected Browser and use default one"
19:48:11 Taelron: "at the inital screen you are locked into the monster... right now, others on your faction may incure ff shooting at you in the monster, two the ease of switching between faction ship and monster to cap planets is far to easy..."
19:48:27 [PS]Faustus: "@dwarden... yeah, that's a good question to bring up in a moderator meeting "
19:48:48 [MoA]Bumblebee: "ok - agreed"
19:48:57 [ C `] Faravid: "hmm, i shot demorian, didn't get any FF, or it was so little that it didn't matter..."
19:48:57 Selvarian: "Faustus can't afford the time to go searching through chat logs for specific information necessary to investigate cheating."
19:49:05 [MoA]Bumblebee: "but if someone WILL misuse them - he will anyway"
[19:49:26 07/01/02] * [ C `] Dwarden @! yes cause it drived just my nevers (whole screen full of firewall warning that stupid IE want download something)
19:49:43 [Evil]Evil Bob: "I've seen it happen a few times in the past week alone Bee."
19:50:11 [MoA]Bumblebee: "welll - a clear one"
19:50:11 [PS]sunshine: "back, sorry.. my mum kept me busy longer than i thought "
19:50:16 [MoA]Bumblebee: "cheating"
19:50:54 [ C `] Dwarden: ".....back to point ...there is no precise way to fully stop 2 player ping pong on prestige"
19:51:17 [ C `] Dwarden: "you can drop gain from that, increase times needed but never stop it"
19:51:19 [eXS]Hydronix: "and not, when teh mv is permanently at 100%"
19:51:21 [MoA]Bumblebee: "why not - dwarden"
19:51:25 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "No, Dwarden  "
19:51:30 Taelron: "Fautus should not have to do all the research, we are suppose to be the ones Moderating things, thats why I'd like to see the option for mods to be able to pull up a historical message log on a server. It will save us some of the he said she said bs..."
19:51:35 Selvarian: "If I see it, I will stop them."
19:51:41 [ C `] Dwarden: "no game was able solve this...."
19:51:45 [ C `] Dwarden: "]no company"
19:51:56 [PS]Faustus: "@hydronix.. simply, there is going to be cheating/exploits no matter what I do... however, the only reason we put into place the prestige scale was to prevent players from running 2 player servers, and doing it... alteast a moderator can get onto the server to check now."
19:51:59 [eXS]Geo: "I agree with dwarden, you cannopt stop that"
19:52:07 [eXS]Geo: "you find it also in UO"
19:52:24 [ C `] Dwarden: "selv how you want differ from 2 player self increasing them or 10 players or else"
[19:52:29 07/01/02] * Chromix slaps Chromix in the head...
19:52:45 [=USO=]Kharn: "yes in UO even with automated scripts...."
19:52:46 [eXS]Hydronix: "@faustus: but the mv got much maps...that will be a great experience"
19:52:56 Selvarian: "Folks, it is like all other forms of rules/law. You can't STOP anyone from DOING anything, unless you whisk them away and put them in a 10' cell somewhere."
19:52:56 [MoA]Bumblebee: "well made chromix - lol"
19:53:11 [ C `] Dwarden: "they will show as normal players for us, they will play normal, but they will use weaks in planet capture, bomb and build to increase prestige"
19:53:34 [ C `] Dwarden: "in nonfair way..."
19:53:36 [eXS]Hydronix: "@faustus: what about an observe mode so that you can log in on any map and observe it?"
19:53:42 [MoA]Bumblebee: "but we must be carefull at all"
19:53:51 [MoA]Bumblebee: "there are less player here"
19:53:58 [eXS]Geo: "why don't we let these players play this game like they want!?"
19:54:06 [ C `] Dwarden: "observer = hmm another way to cheat"
19:54:15 [eXS]Geo: "In my opinion there is a thing much much more important!!!!"
19:54:21 [MoA]Bumblebee: "we are not here to create to much restrictions"
19:54:26 [eXS]Geo: "WE NEED MORE PLAYERS!!!!"
19:54:28 [=USO=]Kharn: "And make something again like CS Cheater Strike...?"
19:54:29 [MoA]Bumblebee: "or they will be gone 2"
19:54:36 [PS]Faustus: "@geo... I agree with you..."
19:54:41 [=USO=]Kharn: "Right said GEO!!!"
19:54:44 [MoA]Lord Binary: "agree geo"
19:54:52 [Evil]Evil Bob: "remote scrapping of planet defenses through the camera then switching factions is an exploit..."
19:54:54 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "agreed"
19:55:08 [eXS]Hydronix: "but we got to hold them too"
19:55:12 Taelron: "oh observer, that brings up the other exploit, the camera is to easy to use for recon"
19:55:16 [PS]Faustus: "basically guys, I don't mind you trying to make the expeirence better for everyone by finding cheaters... but we can' t turn the game into a police state and keep it fun for everyone."
19:55:23 Selvarian: "Yeah, but having only players who cheat is akin to not having any players at all. I guess they still pay, though."
19:55:28 [eXS]Geo: "So please lets think, how we can get more players in, instead of judging the existing ones!?"
19:55:31 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "@Faustus: when we get more solar systems in MV?"
19:55:50 [PS]Faustus: "@dead-eye... when there are enough players to fill the existing MV"
19:55:50 [MoA]Bumblebee: "AGREEED to faustus"
19:55:56 [MoA]Bumblebee: "thats what i menat"
19:55:57 [MoA]Spirit: "lets fill the existing one"
19:55:57 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "ah, ok"
19:56:03 [MoA]Bumblebee: "meant - sorry"
19:56:03 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "right F"
19:56:06 [ C `] Dwarden: "i have ready article for advertising but i wait for new update"
19:56:08 [PS]sunshine: "agree hehe"
19:56:13 Taelron: "maybe you should set it so that you can only camera ships in view or friendlys... if an unfriendly leaves sensor range camera should return to you"
19:56:13 [eXS]Geo: "often the exploits are the reason for fun in a game..."
19:56:21 Selvarian: "Faustus -> That is the intent. However, we can't even begin to enforce the rules if the rules are ambiguous."
19:56:23 [BIS]Bionicman: "what about a demo server could be a battel ground with 2 planets where 20 - 30 players could get in and have acces to all ships but no prestige gain ? "
19:56:38 [PS]Faustus: "@sam... I'll post more info the dev updates once the trading code is up and running"
19:56:41 [MoA]Spirit: "@Bio no"
19:56:50 [GER]Samweis: "ok"
19:56:59 [eXS]Hydronix: "who wants to pay, if he can ahve all ships?"
19:57:00 [ C `] Faravid: "bio, all fun gone from gaining ranks with hard work"
19:57:00 [MoA]Spirit: "why buying when u can have all ships for free"
19:57:14 [eXS]Geo: "first I want to make the suggestion that demo accounts can gain prestige till they are Ensign or 2Lt."
19:57:21 [eXS]Hydronix: "lol spirit "
19:57:32 [eXS]Geo: "then people can see what this game is like"
19:57:53 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "good idea"
19:57:55 [BIS]Bionicman: "just a thought"
19:57:59 [PS]sunshine: "i've to agree with geo.. and all the others who mentioned this option earlier "
19:58:02 [PB]Snafu: "@Geo good idea"
19:58:07 Taelron: "as for getting more players, i know advertising costs money, ie something there is little of atm, but how about writing to not only game sites online, but to IT news sites and game magazines, see if we cant encourage more write ups..."
19:58:09 [ C `] Dwarden: "my though is THIS actually and FOR long TIME are RED servers nearly useless"
19:58:25 [ C `] Dwarden: "noone will play on them for only fact no prestige"
19:58:29 [eXS]Geo: "sometimes when I enter a demo server with non paying players on it, and tell them ,that i am in a cruiser and that they can meet me...they start asking about the game..."
19:58:30 [ C `] Faravid: "how about to demo players access to green servers but with restrictions"
19:58:38 [eXS]Geo: "I mean, that is advertising"
19:58:38 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "if the time for billing is over, the player can only use ships for 2nd Lieutenant"
19:58:40 Taelron: "i know a lot have been contacted, but maybe expained the arena to more types of publications..."
[19:58:41 07/01/02] * DoomDragon has entered the room...
19:58:41 [ C `] Faravid: "they can see the big ships but won't get them"
19:58:47 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "until he will pay"
20:07:12 [DI]-mac-: "has anyone contacted PCMagazing yet, they have a games review sidebar (and Jumpgate was in the new year's issue ... they made it look like the best space MMOPG out there "
19:59:12 [ C `] Dwarden: "thats why i think GOLD server type with 25% prestige gain for Registered and Demo rights for non registered can HELP a lot"
19:59:30 [MoA]Gatos: "gtg, working cu all"
19:59:47 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "cu Gatos"
19:59:54 [PS]sunshine: "cya"
19:59:56 [=USO=]Kharn: "good idea dwarden"
20:00:07 [=USO=]Kharn: "cu gatos"
20:00:07 [MoA]Soul132: "cu i must go"
20:00:15 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "cu Soul"
20:00:23 Taelron: "And/or limit them to 1 or 2 rank advancements before the switch to no pres..."
20:00:29 [=USO=]Kharn: "cya"
20:00:33 [MoA]Bumblebee: "cu soul"
20:00:35 [PS]sunshine: "that would scatter the few players we have actually on more servers > bad"
20:00:38 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "wow, DS has 310 votes"
20:00:39 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "cya"
20:00:41 [MoA]FrankySZ: "cu soul and the rest cya"
20:00:50 [eXS]Hydronix: "bye soul"
20:00:53 [eXS]Hydronix: "bye franky"
[20:01:01 07/01/02] * [eXS]Geo fragt [PS]sunshine ob er heute schon bei MPOGD.com für DarkSpace gevoted hat?!
20:01:10 [PS]sunshine: "3x "
20:01:11 [Evil]Evil Bob: "how about getting rid of all the different types of servers and everyone plays on the same servers/MV, the only difference is those that register gain rank normally and those that don't are limited to 2nd lieu? that way the demo guys get to see the big ships in action and want to earn them."
20:01:41 [PS]Faustus: "@geo... FYI, we will be offering a 7-day trial period very soon ... "
20:01:48 [ C `] Faravid: "grr still can't vote"
20:01:52 Taelron: "Thats what I was getting at Bob =)"
20:01:54 [GER]Samweis: "good "
20:02:01 [BIS]Bionicman: "nice"
20:02:04 [PB]Dalle: "Its better to give the players a HUGE taste and feel of the game within a very short time spand than letting them only taste alittle of the game over a very long timespand and right now were using the last method."
20:02:13 [MoA]Bumblebee: "good2"
20:02:15 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "oh, good"
20:02:16 [BIS]Bionicman: "7 days and you are hooked ;9"
20:02:16 [Evil]Evil Bob: "Faustus, we had dreads in under 4 days, 7 would be overkill"
[20:02:26 07/01/02] * [eXS]Geo asks [PS]sunshine if he has already voted for DarkSpace at MPOGD.com ?!
20:02:27 [MoA]Patlukowsky: "good3"
20:02:28 [MoA]Bumblebee: "will "lure" more of them in - hopefully"
20:02:43 [ C `] Dwarden: "prestige system is wrong now"
20:02:44 [PS]sunshine: "yes.. even new players will get access to the big ships within 7 days"
20:02:52 [MoA]Spirit: "but a 4day dread needs experience"
20:02:54 [ C `] Dwarden: "gain to RA is still easy"
20:02:54 [BIS]Bionicman: "i would like to see that newbii that can get a dred in 7 days lol"
20:02:55 [MoA]Bumblebee: "IF they are in - they will stay for shure"
20:02:59 [eXS]Geo: "@Faustus: I will put it in the news..."
20:03:01 [Evil]Evil Bob: "what better way to lure them if they're playing along side the big massive ships that they don't have access to?"
20:03:09 Taelron: "so limit them to 1st or 2nd lt..."
20:03:28 [ C `] Dwarden: "yes limit them too"
20:03:33 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "@Evil: only veterans can get dreads in 4 days"
20:03:38 Taelron: "the 7 day trial should be that a "trial" not a fully functional run"
20:03:46 [BIS]Bionicman: "remeber that most higranking right now is vet players"
20:03:59 [ C `] Dwarden: "HOW you want PROTECT people to create new and NEW and NEW trial 7 days free acounts?"
20:04:01 [MoA]Bumblebee: "ok - sorry - have to go now 2 - wish you a nice eve."
20:04:09 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "every newbies will learn at first"
20:04:15 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "cu bumble"
20:04:22 [Evil]Evil Bob: "not necessarily talking about n00bs.... talking about free loaders who won't pay but were part of the beta, they'll know how to level up to dreads in under a week."
20:04:26 [PS]sunshine: "cu bumble"
20:04:30 [PS]Faustus: "@geo...hold off on posting that in your news... until it's solid..."
20:04:51 [MoA]Spirit: "then make limit commander"
20:05:00 [Evil]Evil Bob: "they'll just create demo account after demo account after demo account..."
20:05:05 [eXS]Geo: "@F: okay, your wish is my command (since you are Fleet Admiral) *g*"
20:05:07 [PS]Faustus: "@dwarden... playnet registration will be required to get the 7-day trial period... they have a system worked out to prevent it being exploited.."
20:05:31 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "hehe"
20:05:38 [PS]Faustus: "@geo... it's just that we discussed it last week with playnet, we're going to make the final decision on wedsday"
20:05:39 [PB]Dalle: "@drarden one way is to require credit card number. like anarchy online did. they had a 7 day trial as well. where u could gain experience. than when the 7 day period was over they would automaticly take 50$ if u didn't resign."
20:05:52 Teager: "gotta go, cya all "
20:05:57 [eXS]Geo: "ok"
20:06:00 [PS]Faustus: "l8r teager"
20:06:03 [eXS]Hydronix: "bye teager"
20:06:05 Selvarian: "Later, Teager."
20:06:08 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "cu teager"
20:06:09 [PS]sunshine: "cya"
20:06:10 Smokey: "l8r teager"
20:06:20 [=USO=]Kharn: "bye teager"
20:06:32 [MoA]ZeroCool: "cu Teager"
20:06:34 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "@dall, that would work, but it would also have a lot of people upset"
20:07:04 [eXS]Geo: "and now, before all the others go away...I want to hear your suggestions for a better DarkSpace.net website!!!"
20:07:04 [MoA]Spirit: "europeans "
20:07:05 [PS]Faustus: "@doug.. hows that? "
20:07:22 Taelron: "Typically they record the cc number so if you try to rereg for demo they know that you already had one and say use a new card or pay"
20:07:22 [Evil]Evil Bob: "a good percentage of our players are young people without access to CC's"
20:07:23 [MoA]Spirit: "CC are still rare here"
20:07:29 [PS]Faustus: "@geo... FYI, Feivel is in the middle of redoing the site right now..."
20:07:35 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "if you didn't cancel right on time, suddenly you're out 50"
20:07:42 [eXS]Geo: "i already have a cool design in my mind...something unique..."
20:07:45 [eXS]Geo: "hmm..."
20:07:47 [Evil]Evil Bob: "forcing them to use a CC to setup a demo account will restrict them. "
20:07:54 [ C `] Dwarden: "chance to GOT bigger FONT at darkspace.net"
20:07:54 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "also, you can't do the demo if you don't have a CC"
[20:07:55 07/01/02] * [PB]Snafu has entered the room...
20:07:56 [Evil]Disgruntled Doug: "right"
20:08:10 [ C `] Dwarden: "i need binoculars to watch my 19""
20:08:11 [eXS]Geo: "okay, then I will stop... :-/"
20:08:31 [ C `] Faravid: "how about 2 options, infinite demo with no prestige gain and demo with cc, 7 days, prestige gain"
20:08:32 [PB]Snafu: "well i went into a demo was talking to a player and lagged out.not a good thing"
20:08:47 [Evil]Evil Bob: "you just need better glasses Dwarden, turn off that rediculas screen res you're using"
20:09:08 [ C `] Faravid: "font is ok, dwarden, switch down your resolution =P"
20:09:17 Taelron: "hehe switch screen res "
20:09:32 [ C `] Faravid: "i had 1280X1024 res with 17" monitor, can read well"
20:09:50 [ C `] Faravid: "have*"
20:09:55 [MoA]Spirit: "we are drifting too far off"
20:18:11 [DI]-mac-: "@Dwarden: 1920x1200 is not good res to use "
20:10:10 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "okay im sorry"
20:10:13 [eXS]Geo: "@F: hopefully he is able to make a better site than the existing one..."
20:10:19 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "i didn get much sleep last night"
20:10:24 [PS]sunshine: "i'm sure he'll"
20:10:28 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "ill ready the log to catch up whatever i ned"
20:10:33 [=USO=]Kharn: "@ farvid only 17" you should get the new SOny 24""
20:10:44 [Evil]MaDB|otcH: "bbiab"
20:10:58 [ C `] Faravid: "i'm little bit too poor man for that"
20:11:05 [eXS]Hydronix: "gotta go now...bye"
20:11:15 [MoA]Spirit: "bye"
20:11:21 [MoA]Spirit: "i leave too bye"
20:11:31 Selvarian: "Later, Spirit/Hydro"
20:11:32 [ C `] Faravid: "cya"
20:11:40 [PS]sunshine: "l8r"
20:11:46 [eXS]Hydronix: "bye spirit "
20:12:00 [=USO=]Kharn: "got 2 go 2 cu q Faustus can you have a look at your FTP"
20:12:46 DoomDragon: "Create a pure combat server up to destroyers, free play for everyone. No time limit. Its mostly combat which attracts new players."
20:13:25 Smokey: "that would be k00l"
[20:13:27 07/01/02] * DoomDragon has entered the room...
20:13:28 [=USO=]Kharn: "cu all tomorrow"
20:13:32 [ C `] Faravid: "not mostly, there's many that wants strategy and other things to do than just shooting"
20:13:38 Taelron: "problem being the ppl that like combat only will stay there and never pay"
20:13:53 Smokey: "don't gain pres from combat servers anyway..."
20:13:57 [PS]sunshine: "l8r kharn"
20:14:15 [eXS]Geo: "cu kharn"
20:14:16 DoomDragon: "They want bigger ships soon or they leave anyway."
20:14:26 [ C `] Faravid: "there's one combat map with max destroyers btw"
20:14:29 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "cu Kharn"
20:14:56 [ C `] Faravid: "someone just have to set it up"
20:14:57 [Evil]Evil Bob: "allow registered users full ship access on the same server, the demo's will learn quickly enough what the big ships look like."
20:14:57 DoomDragon: "you can fly all ships there with a demo account?"
20:15:18 [ C `] Faravid: "no no, full ship access, never!"
20:15:22 [eXS]Geo: "going now ... CU"
20:15:27 [ C `] Faravid: "takes the fun of gaining ranks totally!"
20:15:41 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "going now 2"
20:15:43 [eXS]Dead-Eye: "cu all"
20:15:51 DoomDragon: "There is fun in gaining ranks? May i missed it?"
20:15:52 [Evil]Evil Bob: "access based upon their current rank"
20:16:03 [PS]Faustus: "FYI... just got a call from the network guy... most likely will be down from 8am to 9am tomorrow... waiting for confirmation, then I will post news.."
20:16:06 [ C `] Faravid: "ah that would be ok"
20:16:07 DoomDragon: "even my grandma would be admiral in 2 month"
20:16:11 Smokey: "which would be nothing for a demo users )"
20:24:44 [DI]-mac-: "damn techs, shoot 'em all =)"
20:16:56 DoomDragon: "When you don't offer the new players enough chances are high they won't pay"
20:19:24 DoomDragon: "The servers are no time full and every player who visits this site will see it. And when you cannot do much with a demo account, why should they stay? They see that not many ppl are playing it and they don't get a feel for the game too."
20:19:48 [Evil]Evil Bob: "just need to get rid of the seperatism, get rid of the "demo" servers, put everyone on the same servers. When demos see first hand what they can work toward when they pay, they'll be more inclined to spend the $10 to gain the rank. "
20:20:12 [ C `] Faravid: "agree with bob"
20:20:33 [PS]sunshine: "sorry, just lost connection"
20:20:38 DoomDragon: "i don't think they like getting blasted to pieces by some dreads or kluth cruisers, this would only help vets gaining prestige"
20:20:41 [BIS]Bionicman: "im in on that to"
20:20:50 [Evil]Evil Bob: "alot of the time the demos have alot of questions about how to play and won't read the docs, in teh servers with everyone else they'll see how the game is played."
20:21:37 [Evil]Evil Bob: "they'll see the teamwork involved, get interested in joining clans, and seriously consider paying for the game."
20:21:49 [PS]sunshine: "when we limit them to ltd commander on a 7-*days-trial... we'll get a constant crowd of low-lvl players.. "
20:22:05 [BIS]Bionicman: "what about a demo ship you cant kill that the demo players gets to cruzz around in they cant do nothing but watch the battel in it but ..."
20:22:15 [ C `] Faravid: "there should be messages to demo players, that suggest playing tutorials, reading this and that and showing what they can get when they register etc..."
20:22:22 [PS]sunshine: "they get the chance to learn how the game works and see what they get when they subscribe.."
20:22:34 [Evil]Evil Bob: "an observer ship... interesting idea"
20:23:07 DoomDragon: "I guess when they start to read the forum they will get a feel for the game problems too "
20:23:11 Smokey: "why not just stick them in observer mode.. about the samething but without the ship and chat..."
20:23:34 [ C `] Faravid: "and ability to move smokey"
20:23:36 [BIS]Bionicman: "thik the demo ship thing would be nice"
20:23:39 [PS]sunshine: "too boring just watching the other ..."
20:23:45 [ C `] Faravid: "yeah"
20:23:59 [ C `] Faravid: "they can get scouts and other in demo servers still sunshine"
20:24:22 [PS]sunshine: "main part of the game is gaining prestige, and fight each other"
20:24:31 [PS]sunshine: "econoomy success soon.. we'll see how this will work"
20:24:34 Smokey: "moving is not much.. no offense but i wouldn't want like 20 demo accounts clogging up a scenario game or something..."
20:24:50 Selvarian: "So, do we have anything else to discuss on the agenda today?"
20:24:57 [PS]sunshine: "but they won't get a feeling for fighting .. or won't know how it feels when oyu get access to a new ship when they just watch and fly scouts"
20:25:16 [PS]sunshine: "no, just smalltalk i think.."
20:25:23 [ C `] Faravid: "smokey, there's usually max 6 demos on, and they're not lagging server with shooting, using fighters, missiles etc"
20:25:35 [BIS]Bionicman: "easy just make a limit on demo slots on each server like only 5 - 10 demp ships at the same time"
20:25:41 [ C `] Faravid: "hwo about these all combined, some of everything"
20:25:46 [ C `] Faravid: "these ideas i mean"
20:25:57 [PS]sunshine: "hope faust'll come back soon .. "
20:26:01 [PS]sunshine: ":/"
20:26:16 [PS]sunshine: ".."
20:26:23 [ C `] Faravid: "sun, you can hand him the chat log =)"
20:26:33 Selvarian: "I think we need to start having around the clock monitoring of servers. S1 was down for hours last night and MV-Sirius was BADLY desynched."
* [DI]-mac- whispered "were my MV servers causing problems a while back, when you asked me to take them down? Just curious "
20:26:54 Smokey: "i dunno i don't see a point to them flying around doing nothing but watching... they might as well be in observer mode..."
20:27:00 [ C `] Faravid: "that's playnet's problem selvarian"
20:27:02 [Evil]Evil Bob: "the only playable server last night was S2..."
20:27:03 [BIS]Bionicman: "they will be able to see an actuly battel between bigger ships that would be a plus"
20:27:30 Selvarian: "No, it is ours too. Playnet may manage the hardware, but DS manages the software."
20:27:38 [Evil]Evil Bob: "better to have them in scouts to interact and attack if they want then leave them in observer mode."
[20:27:45 07/01/02] * [PS]sunshine whispered "no real problem, they just screwed up the server list when i got faustus right "
* [DI]-mac- whispered "ok "
20:27:56 Smokey: "will these demo ships be viewable to the other players ingame?"
20:27:56 [BIS]Bionicman: "you all knows how players react first time they see a dred in action :9"
20:28:14 [ C `] Faravid: "lol yeah"
20:28:22 [ C `] Faravid: "oh S*** that's huge"
20:28:25 Selvarian: "Even still, I thought PLayNet was supposed to have someone in the chatroom at all times to answer PlayNet-specific problems."
20:28:37 [Evil]Evil Bob: "and reged players won't get that much pres/ship damage from killing pesky scouts, so it won't be all that worth it to chase the demos around."
20:28:57 [ C `] Faravid: "and it's hard to shoot scouts"
20:28:58 Smokey: "can watch a battle in observer mode... probably better since you can change your view and not worry about your ship..."
20:29:01 [ C `] Faravid: "takes time"
20:29:29 [BIS]Bionicman: "the sice of them should not be bigger than a scout but they should not be killed as they should not be able to prefrom anyactions them self other than fly around"
20:29:33 Smokey: "and what about other players mistaking the demo ships as cloaked or ECCMed ships or anything else..."
20:30:01 [ C `] Faravid: "no, just invisible demo ships"
20:30:09 [ C `] Faravid: "impossible to disable that"
20:30:26 [ C `] Faravid: "hmm.... you could use that as exploid too then"
20:30:29 Smokey: "thought someone just said they were viewable to other players?"
20:30:40 [Evil]Evil Bob: "get rid of the demo servers, everyone plays together, limit demo accounts to scouts, more servers. "
20:30:47 [BIS]Bionicman: "no one said that "
20:31:02 Smokey: "well anyway...."
[20:31:08 07/01/02] * [MoA]Soul132 has entered the room...
20:31:37 Smokey: "the only real feel of the game is to actually play it.. i would be hella bored watching someone else having all the fun...."
20:31:55 Selvarian: "I think I must have missed it, was there any specific agenda set for the meeting? Just curious."
20:31:59 [Evil]Evil Bob: "yep, so put them in scouts."
20:32:04 Smokey: "don't think so"
20:32:06 [Evil]Evil Bob: "not that I know of..."
20:40:13 [DI]-mac-: "nothing specific Selv"
20:32:16 [BIS]Bionicman: "well if you watch someone have loads of fun then mabye they buy it ;9"
20:33:02 Smokey: "i can't tell you how many times i've seen a good movie trailer and then gone to the movie and it sucked.."
20:33:03 Taelron: "they can observe already if they like, but honestly its hands on that makes most ppl drool"
20:33:14 [Evil]Evil Bob: "it would be better to have fun then watch it, you're more inclined to pay for something you understand then something you don't"
20:33:43 [Evil]Evil Bob: "episode 1.... the trailers were cool... the movie stunk..."
20:34:02 Selvarian: "Let demos play for free in the metaverse for a week or two."
20:34:05 Taelron: "nod... sadly the episode 2 trailers even look bad..."
20:34:13 Selvarian: "..with some limitations."
20:34:21 Smokey: "of course"
20:34:23 [BIS]Bionicman: "thats why they should get a small demo ship to fly around in get realy close to that dred that just kills everything etc"
20:34:27 Selvarian: "Sure would bulk up the numbers."
20:34:50 [ C `] Faravid: "episode 2 trailers looks bad yeah"
20:34:55 [ C `] Faravid: "and the name even worse"
20:35:02 Smokey: "watching a dread kill everything teachs you to stay away from dreads... )"
20:35:08 [BIS]Bionicman: "ehh"
20:35:09 Selvarian: "and give some reason for paid players to jump in and try to defend their holdings."
20:35:14 [BIS]Bionicman: "hehe"
20:35:15 Taelron: "we seam to keep going around in circles here, basicly a lot of us have suggested allowing the demos on the servers, but limiting them to a max 2 rank gain"
20:35:37 Selvarian: "Well, I am suggesting ONLY the MV servers."
20:35:38 [Evil]Evil Bob: "I'm more of the opinion that demo's should get a week with a max rank advance of 2nd lieu. "
20:36:01 [ C `] Faravid: "hmm, i'm logging off, cya"
20:36:06 Smokey: "MV would be good... more ppl would play since having smaller demos to do jobs like trans and other stuff..."
20:36:08 [Evil]Evil Bob: "let them play along with all the registered users, get to know them, join their clans, etc."
20:36:09 [BIS]Bionicman: "i dont like to see a lot of demo players die to jump chasing dreds"
20:36:10 Taelron: "yeah i am leaning that way too bomb and also limiting them to the mv or just 1 scenario server"
20:36:10 Selvarian: "Later, Faravid"
20:36:24 Taelron: "er bomb= Evil Bob lol"
20:36:35 Selvarian: "Yeah, but the MV is big enough for them to run and hide."
20:36:52 [Evil]Evil Bob: "Bio, the demo level ships won't be worth jumping after, not enough pres in it for a dread to bother."
20:37:05 [Evil]Evil Bob: "how many scouts do you jump after?"
20:37:36 Smokey: "well if they aren'y ECCMing you can kill them in like 1 dread spacebar of death.. )"
20:37:51 [BIS]Bionicman: "soo every time i take an scout out i have 4 cruzz on my tail 3 or 4 jumps lol"
20:3
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