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A Theory |
Max Kepler
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: March 08, 2002
Posts: 589
From: ICS Victory
|  Posted: 2002-11-25 19:05
NOTE: I do NOT want to create a flame war out of this! Realize that it is JUST a theory.
Not so far in the past, UGTO were the strongest faction. Pretty much by far. It was only until recently that the ICC really picked up and started winning. And now the UGTO are the weakest faction!
Now, I've noticed that there are a lot of UGTO players leaving, quitting MV, or switching factions. Is it possible that the people who were the UGTO back in the day chose UGTO because of its superiority? And that now because of its inferiortiy they are losing their will to fight, and leaving? Or maybe they didn't even join UGTO for the superiority specifically, but rather got used to it over time?
Again, DONT turn this into a flame war! The only reason you should reply to this is if you have something WORTHY of adding, or just simply want to state "Yes" or "No". The primary feedback I want is from the UGTO. Am I right or am I wrong?
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Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2002-11-25 19:55
Quote:
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On 2002-11-25 19:05, Max Kepler {C?} wrote:
NOTE: I do NOT want to create a flame war out of this! Realize that it is JUST a theory.
Not so far in the past, UGTO were the strongest faction. Pretty much by far. It was only until recently that the ICC really picked up and started winning. And now the UGTO are the weakest faction!
Now, I've noticed that there are a lot of UGTO players leaving, quitting MV, or switching factions. Is it possible that the people who were the UGTO back in the day chose UGTO because of its superiority? And that now because of its inferiortiy they are losing their will to fight, and leaving? Or maybe they didn't even join UGTO for the superiority specifically, but rather got used to it over time?
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Max:
In some cases you're right. There are always people who hop to the strongest faction, however no-one must generalize what is going on. UGTO is feeling what the ICC felt before this all started. Few of us have the will to fight because we are tired of getting our butts kicked and are waiting for something to breathe life into us again.
Is this not how the ICC felt?
It's not that UGTO is weaker. I honestly don't think it is. People just sort of...take turns. It's uncontrollable and indescribable for the most part. In all honesty if the UGTO got their rears in gear again as a whole, I think ICC and UGTO would be pretty well matched.
Thus, I don't feel it's a matter of which faction is actually stronger and watching everyone flood to that side although people certainly switch sides based on who people *SAY* is stronger. When 1.481 comes out, UGTO will feel compelled to try out their new toys in the MV as will the ICC, and I think we will see at least a partial equality of power and some form of balance. People just get tired of losing and their resolve is vanquished until an outside source (like a patch or a powerful new ally(more than one, perhaps)) invigorates them again.
So to answer your questions...sure we lost our will to fight, but not because of inferiority. We lost our will to fight because (bear with me here) it was our "turn" to do so. It just happens. Some people choose to hop at that point, some people (like most of GTN, for which I am very thankful) choose to be patient.
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Again, DONT turn this into a flame war! The only reason you should reply to this is if you have something WORTHY of adding, or just simply want to state "Yes" or "No". The primary feedback I want is from the UGTO. Am I right or am I wrong?
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Right for some, wrong for others. 
-Dem
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Aubinator{=21st=}
Admiral
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 218
From: Winnipeg, Canada
| Posted: 2002-11-25 19:59
Let's just put it this way...
K'Luth is the better race! Humans are inferior!
LOL... (no offense  )
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Happy Huntin'!
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2002-11-25 20:04
Actually, over the last few days, UGTO have won several battles...I think ~L~ switching over has started them up out of their previous slump.
That, and the number of ICC players switching to the "underdog" faction...
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Max Kepler
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: March 08, 2002
Posts: 589
From: ICS Victory
| Posted: 2002-11-25 20:17
You're balance idea is pretty much how it is in my mind. But I'm using what people 'say' in this context and playing it over as the truth, because to everyone the truth is simply what they believe. But you're right.
And yes, I do think that if the UGTO get into gear that things will balance out. That's one reason why I'm joining the UGTO (at least temporarily). Maybe its a futile attempt, but if the UGTO can see people COMING to their cause instead of leaving, it could show the UGTO that they have a cause (however Imperialistic it may be ) worth fighting for. It was my experience with the ICC's fall from and rise to power that really did change the way I fight and think.
So I encourage the UGTO - don't give up! You'll come back. And really the way to come back isn't through a patch, its through willingness and passion to fight.
EDIT:
In reply to Jim---
I wouldn't know. You know that my computer went ka-put. Haven't played recently.
[ This Message was edited by: Max Kepler {C?} on 2002-11-25 20:21 ]
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SuperNova10
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 18, 2002
Posts: 109
From: Virginia
| Posted: 2002-11-25 20:35
HAIL THE ICC DEATH TO THE UGTO!!!
UGTO will never make a come back >=)
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Commander Cain
Cadet
Joined: April 04, 2002
Posts: 218
| Posted: 2002-11-25 20:36
The current MV state has nothing to do with balence in the game its self. Its all about teamwork and numbers.
The K'Luth are desgined for teamwork and cannot survive with out it. Thats why the K'Luth hold there own in MV. K'Luth work great together and in shows.
With [~L~] switching to UTGO you are now seeing the same thing. Leviathans are a great team. If you look at all the ground gained in the last week by UTGO it has been all Leviathans. They have given the UTGO what it needed, a team that works together. The UTGO became the weakest faction because of a lack of team work. I am happy that I can consider UTGO a threat again. It makes my MV time more interesting, so that makes it more fun.
Not to put down the ICC they have great fleets too, but... The current ICC status is do to shear numbers. There are just so many of them they can over run every one eles. Choking our rivers with thier dead so to speak.
All I stated is why I am uneasy about the balence patches coming down the road. Game balance right now is perfect IMO. Its a players game to win not 1 ship is better then another. Every one has thier share of weakness.
My thinking is that fleets just need to spend more time on working well together and the MV would be the most played server in Darkspace.
This has a down side. If more of the ICC start making better team combined with thier numbers we will have to change the server name to ICCverse. 
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all my statements are IMO as always
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Max Kepler
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: March 08, 2002
Posts: 589
From: ICS Victory
| Posted: 2002-11-25 20:43
Hmm....lets just have half of the ICC join UGTO....I want ICC to be the underdogs again
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2002-11-25 20:50
No, the UGTO ships used to be faster and better protected, and have approximately equivalent armament, now the UGTO are slower and have inferior armament and armour. This happened slowly over time, here is what caused it. in no particular order.
ICC dreads given light weapons
ICC given active shields and shield rotation
ICC ships given mines
Armour effecting Mass
ICC torpedoes being given tracking ability,but still retaining the highest damage over time, longest range, most ammo, and lowest reload time
Mine slots were removed in favour of heavy weapon slots.
See?
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NightDragon
Cadet
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 893
| Posted: 2002-11-25 21:53
60% of teh dreads has 3 or less weapons... cambat dread, missle dread and bomber dread, 3 cannons are not going to do squat to anything
Shields in general are great for 1 on 1 and ageinst non kluth engagements, i find myself dieing more becuase of the shields than i ever do armor(well its more of inf that are killing me and me running into stars and stuff)
The only ships that get an advantge with shields is destoryers becuase they can keep there manverablitly and still be fairly well protected
armor effecting mass... eehh well i guess but armor has more hp than shields
the fusion torps, i dunno about that one, yes it has the highest damage over time, longest range and most ammo and other things, but i would think you would want to do alot more damage in a less amount of time, as far as i know AM torps does the most damage in teh least amount of time, and with things being repared at a super fast rate whats the point of useing fusions that will only scrach the armor, but that one is personal prefernic(spelling i know) and not really a game issue becuase crusiers can still dodge them (btw tranking torps was a bad idea i think now they are just to powerful not to use with anything
the mine slots.. i dunno all it is in another torp ot missle imo and not that big huge of a deal, i think the fact its a free full heavy slot is a problem but im sure that could be changed later
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Juxtapose
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 1308
From: Give me your bullets!
| Posted: 2002-11-25 22:10
I have no comments on balance of ships and such, as I feel its not only how you use what you got, but also how well you use it together....not to mention that the balance does change drastically with each passing patch...
Being the Underdog is great.
Being the superior Faction is great.
I cant blame anyone for switching factions...no matter where they are or where the faction they are going is in regard to power.
We all have different game roles we enjoy playing, so I can't see anything wrong with a player or Fleet joining a particular faction to be on the winning side or on the underdog side...if it makes them happy, cool, because it makes the game play more fun if we are all enjoying it.
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2002-11-26 13:45
One thing you should consider in your theory.
Who are these people that have switched factions? Have they been there for awhile? I'd say in most cases they have been there for months, in a few cases almost a year. To your theory I'd say in this case you are wrong.
I know that there are some people that absolutely have to be on the winning side, but in the MV there is really no such thing. I for one joined the UGTO well after they were weakened, and before that played the ICC when most wonuldn't even touch them. Playing the "underdog" in the MV is fun and alot of people like that, however it does get tiring being beaten relentlessly.
The UGTO right at the moment are the weakest of the 3, and some people are campaigning to limit the only advantage they have. It is things like that combined with some of the egos that you meet in the MV that lead people to want to take breaks. MoA and GTN held the line for a long time now, GDI and a few others have tried to step up to cover off. These are all good teams, however morale has a whole on that side has been systematically lowered. ~L~ came over and added new energy, and people have commented on how "the UGTO now have been proven capabable"...they haven't, just the fresh energy coming from a new fleet.
In summary I'd say the UGTO players always have the will to fight, however most are losing the willingness to have prestige farmed off of them.
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2002-11-26 14:10
You icc make me laugh. I took this from the faq.
Active Shields will absorb 20,000 points of damage and take 250 seconds to charge to 100% from 0%
Heavy armor will absorb 20,000 points of damage and takes 300 seconds to repair fully.
Shields are so much weaker then armour blah blah blah *flush*
What is also sad is that you still haven't figured out that most of your ships have a full arc on them, use your other shields as a battery for the full arc when facing multiple ships. If you ship doesnt have a full arc consider reshipping. Maybe ask admiral jimmy or rogue how to fly, im sure they will explain it to you.
Dont think 4 light weaps on a ship make any difference? take an ead out to play with a sabot armed AD, you will quickly change your mind. 4 cannons is half the armament of a bleeding battle dread.
By damage over time on torps i dont mean damage over 96 volleys, i mean damage over about 4.
Amour effecting mass is a big deal, icc cruisers outhandle ugtos destroyers modded with heavy armour.
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You sir, have an incurable case of rationality. I'm afraid the only thing you can do is develop a deep cynicism before the stress of searching for something you cannot find causes a stroke.
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Deleted
Cadet
Joined:
Posts: 0
| Posted: 2002-11-26 14:14
I guess I don't expect the fleets to be exactly balanced yet. I doubt they ever will be precisely balanced. But here in testing, I consider fleet balance to be one of those things that just has to be played out. hmmm, I'm still too new to have realized you can change factions in MV.
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DOM700 [-IMO-]
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 3175
From: Eckental, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2002-11-27 01:32
I have to say some things as well:
1. I prefered ICC being the underdogs that was much more fun
2. I have played for the ICC, when they were the underdogs
3. I haven't changed the MV faction so far
If you say ICC has advatages over UGTO, fine
UGTO has advatages as well, Command Dread, Bomber Cruiser, EAD (with 2 special slots)
Some things need to be adjusted, like ICC having more torps due to the mines
And maybe the hulls of UGTO ships should either be stronger or have less mass (they are supposed to have the faster ships...)
But I really think MV is more about teamwork than the ship configuration, if one fleet has a dictor, scouts to find lonely hostile ships in space, supply ships, then this fleet WILL win
Again, if there is a fleet of destroyers and you fight them with ships with torpedos, you WILL loose...
That was what ICC noticed, when Kluths with their dessies and nice teamplay attack us with the same numbers of ships
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