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ICC station level shields. |
Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
|  Posted: 2015-03-29 23:24
After a few requests for me to post again on this subject, i want to talk about the ICC stations shield regeneration rates.
Now first off i want to be clear on this, i am not in any way the best or most knowledgable player around. I am mostly an icc player but i play all factions and know every ship strength, weakness and also every weapon stat and armor/shield stats in game very well.
That being said the ICC station level shield regeneration is far too high. Any player using one can easily get shield regen rate to 80000 a second out of combat and 20000 a second in combat. Meaning in order to damage one you have to deal more than 20000 damage every second. Currently there is no single ship in the game that can do this. It takes minimum of 2 dreadnoughts to take on this task and even if the dread choices are perfect (for example 2 kluth wyverns) it will take an unrealistic amount of time to damage one let alone kill one.
This is not a new complaint by any means, but hopefully an unbiased icc player making this complaint will be heard a little better.
Now IMO just like all the other problems that i think this game has this can be fixed by a simple small change.
PLEASE reduce ICC STATION level shield regeneration by 25%. I have thought about this alot and have reasons for choosing this amount, this will eliminate complaints, i gurantee it. (except maybe those of other icc players agaisnt me)
Thanks for reading, PLEASE consider
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Splinter Cells
Marshal
Joined: November 27, 2014
Posts: 8
| Posted: 2015-03-30 03:57
I support this change/s....
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2015-03-30 13:05
20,000 regen in combat? Wow... and here I was, thinking that the 1,680 regen of 4x Skirmish shields and 800 from 4x Auxiliary shield gens was OP.
If the OP is true, then I support that 25% nerf, even if it would require adding new shield gadgets for stations.
And if not true, my biased opinion would be to reduce regen rates of all shields by 25%, and maybe compensate with HP slightly increased. Like the tangent function, beyond some level of regen rate, ship durability shoots up by a lot.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2015-04-14 01:08
So I tested shields in beta today on the following ships :- Sensor corvette, Patrol frigate, Cutlass destroyer, Strike cruiser, Jump cruiser, Border cruiser, Strike carrier, Line station.
And found that
a) shields dont drain much energy. Maybe 0.1 per shield, compared to 0.2 on actives and 0.4 for skirmish shields when it was first introduced.
b) regen amount increases with level. Skirmish shields go from 400 on scouts to some 960 on stations, for reference.
c) auxiliary shields are insane. Combine the HP of actives and regen of skirmish, and energy drain of aux shields (which is 0, by the way), and increase each by 25%.
A line station of today could fight a stock battle station of v1.5 on the basis of these monstrous auxiliary shields alone. 2 battle stations if it uses skirmish shields as well. 3 Battle stations if it adds on 24% defense recharge. 4 Battle stations if it has a command carrier nearby with +20% defense recharge and torpedo fighters. And each battlestation then had 10 IT MkII missiles (pretty nice), 8 QSTs (weaker than today's QSTs) and 8 HCLs of which 6 of each fire on any given arc, a trusty flux wave and 3 fighters with cannons. Armor and energy were crap compared to the 1.7 battle station, but it could still hold its own.
Among other things, I'd recommend
a) reducing base regeneration rate by 10%, and per level regeneration gained by 30%
b) increase energy drain to 0.2 for reactives, 0.25 for actives and ghost shields, and 0.4 for skirmish shields.
c) reduce auxiliary shield generator HP by 10-20%, and regeneration by 30-40%
Because Defense is not Energy faction. Thats UGTO's domain.
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Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
| Posted: 2015-04-14 23:32
i agree with destiny sort of but, right now its reactive 0.05 active .1 skirmish .15, if you increase that alot its going to completeley cripple any icc ship with shields x8. As is the seige transport cannot move without losing energy already. However i would twist your idea a little to make shield regen energy per second increase very slightly as ship class level goes up. meaning starting with current energy per second for cruisers (keeping it same as now) but increasing slightly for dreads and stations per second energy consumption and for lower than cruisers a slight decrease as ship class goes down.
Also the AUX shield does require no energy at all per second but you could also say it cost .3 a second because thats the reactor gave your ship per second before you changed it out for the shield. Most ships the AUX shields are only a nice choice but on those stations they are just crazy powerful, and LOL make no mistake 17k-20k hp a second in combat is no exaggeration its exactly what it produces, (if you keep all 8 of your shields contantly regenerating each will do a combined 17k-20khp a second)
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2015-04-15 00:35
my head was bugging out by the time i started thinking about appropriate values for energy drains, but from what you say, i agree that 0.4/s for skirmish is certainly too much.
Still, I think that
a) energy drain is not enough. It used to be twice as much a few years ago, and ICC were fairly playable. And, if they got too careless, they actually ran out of energy. As for the Siege transport, and also Cutlass dessy (8 shields) and border cruiser (8 shields), I believe that they should suffer energy drain just from moving, because, well, they've got 8 shields! It is a fair trade between your speed versus higher turn rates and better defence.
b) aux shields are too good. This stems from a). ICC Generator energy production has remained constant at 0.3 energy/s, whereas shield energy drains have been tweaked up and down (mostly down, it seems). Then, it seems someone had the bright idea, that if the ICC aux gen can provide energy for 2 shield devices, then aux shield gens must be competent with 2 shield devices. Hence the monster description.
While you can argue that the auxiliary shield generator costs an effective 0.3 energy per second in terms of energy lost, I will argue that using an aux shield while turning off 2 active shields will cost you 0.1/s energy drain, and give you 30% more regen. Plus, as and when your working shield HP get depleted, the -Deactivated- Active shields will serve as backup shield HP that you can route around your shields. That is how versatile shields mechanics are, and have been used by expert ICC players.
I sincerely hope these things get fixed, because LineStat, Strike Cruiser, Siege transport et al.
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Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
| Posted: 2015-04-19 03:37
Thanks for your post destiny that makes me think a little, what if..
Shield energy costs did go up, not double but like a slight increase of 50% or so (maybe like .07 for reactive, .13 for active, .17 for skirmish), but add in an option to turn shield regeneration on and off so you can still have shields on, they would just act more like armor and take hits but have no regeneration in that mode. That way the ships with shields x8 would have the slight nerf ppl feel they need but also allowing them to still work.
Theres two ways to do this...
1 . Easy way to do this is simply to make it to when you turn shields "off" that they would still be surrounding ship instead of disapearing, they would just not regenerate hp anymore in the "off" mode. I know this would change a few game mechanics such as turning off shields to lower signature ect. But it is still a viable option in my opinion for game change.
2. harder way would be adding an additional option of turning the shield regeneration on and off while still keeping the seperate ability to actually turn the shields themselves on and off. While this is clearly the ideal way to do this i proposed first solution soley because it would most likely be easier to code/implement and i know that is importent somtimes.
Still tho in my experience with using icc and fighting icc, the shield regen of the smaller ships (cruiser and below) are not a problem at all. And since there is only 1 icc dread that has shields x8 (tier 3 strike carrier), i feel theres no serious problem here either. Dreads in combat regen around 1k a second for any AUX shields they add and 800 a second for dread skirmish, 450 or so for active, these numbers are not far from what kluth armor regenerates per second (regular shields not the AUX shields). The way i see it is that pulse shield, or the slightly higher weapon range is not ICCS ability but that the option to change out the fusion reactors for AUX shields is the true ICC ability (meaning its somthing actually comparable to kluth cloak or ugto armor resistances). So i would ask we keep this in mind when talking about AUX shielding.
However that said, the station level shield regeneration is off the charts crazy good. At double the HP per second of dread level shields and the fact that each station has 4 reactors to switch out it gives them easily 17k-20k+ hp regen each second and that is just too much. While there are ships that can do this much damage a second, they cannot keep up that firepower for long enough to take shields below 50% alone. So really i go back to my original solution of 25% reduction for station level shields ONLY, and would like to tack on the possible 50% increase to energy per second for shields with the option to turn shield regen/energy cost per second off while still keeping shields up to take hits.
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Point Of No Return
Chief Marshal
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 24, 2007
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2015-04-21 14:53
dont complain about ICC values and then jump to another faction to get an advantage in getting prestige
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Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
| Posted: 2015-04-21 19:45
Point of no return, I do not understand what your post is supposed to mean.
1. I am chief marshal i have no interest in prestige, only interest is making dark space balenced and better for us.
2. What advantage are you talking about exactly?
3. I play ALL factions, i just happend to use the name Jhomes this time that i was not ICC.
4. I switched to ugto only to prove that ICC is not the overpowered, overwhelming, unstoppable force that non-ICC players seem to think they are. Me and you already know this POINT, but others do not. Over the past week or so i think its pretty obvious to ALL that ICC is not unstoppable or overwhelmingly powerful. Of course this had little to do with me, i was only 1 of many team mates, old ugto players and some new quick learning players that came together to show that there is nothing over powered in 99% of ICC factions hardware.
Im afraid you misunderstand the reason for this series of posts POINT OF NO RETURN, It is not to get ICC nerfed but to NOT get ICC nerfed, im being HONEST about how ICC really is and admitting to what does need changes, and making clear what not does not need adjusted and why.
I am sorry if other ICC players do not agree with my opinions but that is 100% okay, i just ask instead of a negative oddly accusing post, that instead you join the discussion and tell us why you dont aggree and what you actually think about the topic.
Thanks
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2015-04-22 00:31
I'd like to reinterpret Point as saying that this thread is asking for ICC to be nerfed, while not getting anything in return (and that if said nerf happens, unfleeted players will switch factions and toy with dedicated ICC).
I agree about that, as a few days ago I fought off a Combat dread with a Battle cruiser near a ugto planet with depot. The fight went on for 5 minutes, with my cruiser regenerating most of the dread's damage, while it took good hull damage.
Ideally, it should have run off the cruiser after a few minutes but didn't do enough damage with the depot nearby.
A ugto dread could win against my cruiser in that situation in 2 minutes or so, and a K'Luth dread would win in less than 1 minute.
I may be wrong, but ICC just feel off-balance right now. Pretty nice defence and less than nice offence in general combat. They win only in long fights.
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muzzle333
Chief Marshal
Joined: July 11, 2013
Posts: 19
| Posted: 2015-04-22 10:22
I Agree with jhomes as a former ICC player (i.e. i was in FTL for the longest time)
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*Flash*
Chief Marshal
Joined: April 19, 2009
Posts: 291
From: Semi retired after 1.67 !
| Posted: 2015-04-23 05:45
every player knows that icc stations are op and yet nothing is done about it. We dont need to post here what everyone knows already, the question is will LS be chanced or not?
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Senti-Onikawa
Admiral
Joined: September 21, 2011
Posts: 37
| Posted: 2015-05-07 13:17
Quote:
On 2015-04-23 05:45, *Flash* wrote:
every player knows that icc stations are op and yet nothing is done about it. We dont need to post here what everyone knows already, the question is will LS be chanced or not?
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It's probably VERY far down the list of things the devs are working on. How many people are using LS? How many people are abusing the obvious OP stat?
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*Flash*
Chief Marshal
Joined: April 19, 2009
Posts: 291
From: Semi retired after 1.67 !
| Posted: 2015-05-07 14:54
Play the game more often and to answer your question is that 3/4 are using LS
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Senti-Onikawa
Admiral
Joined: September 21, 2011
Posts: 37
| Posted: 2015-05-07 16:37
Quote:
On 2015-05-07 14:54, *Flash* wrote:
Play the game more often and to answer your question is that 3/4 are using LS
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I seen maybe 2 people in the last 3 days use LS. I would go so far as to say they're not in high use because there is no necessity. What are icc going to cap that won't revert after a few hours? Makes even building up the resources for one pointless because there's very little to do with them.
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\"That's a good question... I wish I had an answer.\"
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