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Is it Real |
Hawk™
Cadet
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 570
From: Lagtopia, Lag system.
|  Posted: 2006-12-04 19:04
A few days ago Tbone and I were debating over among other things, the existence of ghosts and/or extraterrestrials. As it unfolded, Tbone analy raped me in a subjects, and is basicaly a skeptic. I was wondering if anyone would like to post any evedence that could prove either of us wrong, but I would like this to be a friendly thread. No flaming alowed.
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2006-12-04 19:10
we cannot prove aliens and ghosts DONT exist. its impossible to prove a negative like that.
Aliens very highly likely exist (although i bet 99% are not really 'civilizations').
Ghosts are 99.9% chance that they are not ghosts, but just random occurances of natural phenomenon that people mis-interpret.
My 2 cents...
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2006-12-04 19:17
I believe in both, but only due to personal experiences I've managed to come across. I still like to see a scientific approach to the subject.
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Hawk™
Cadet
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 570
From: Lagtopia, Lag system.
| Posted: 2006-12-04 19:52
Thats basicaly what I am getting at, if anyone has any scientificaly prove either.
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Lux (Polaris)
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 835
From: Asgard
| Posted: 2006-12-04 19:57
Aliens DO exist. For them not to is impossible. Our world. One world out of billions and billions and billions and billions, possibly an infintely many worlds. And who says life can only flourish on worlds like ours? There could be, say.. life that lives in space.(Gaifens!) Life that lives on (to us) hostile enviroments and feeds on toxic materials. Therefore I think the chances of there being aliens is 100%.
It's another thing, however, to say that an intelligent, highly advanced alien race has visited us.
And as for ghosts...I don't know, and I don't really care too much, unless they're ghosts like in Bleach. And only one or two of you will know what I meant by Bleach. To me it's sort of like debating the existance of God(s) and if you have a spirit, an eternal soul. You never know until you've died, and noone will ever completely prove or disprove the existance of God(s). It's like distiguishing between what are 'miracles' and what is 'luck and chance'.
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Tbone
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2006-12-04 20:01
First off, you never brought up aliens. So I'd appreciate it if you don't say I don't believe they don't exist at all. In fact, I do indeed believe they exist, if by nothing else but because of the infintesimal chances life has to exist.
And Crim, there have been many scientific approaches to ghosts. None have uncovered a thing. Nothing.
[ This Message was edited by: Tbone on 2006-12-04 20:03 ]
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Hawk™
Cadet
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 570
From: Lagtopia, Lag system.
| Posted: 2006-12-04 20:07
Yes, but we did discuss Area 51, and I thought that was basicaly in the same ballpark.
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Tbone
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2006-12-04 20:17
And that pretty much explains everything.
We were actually discussing the presense of "unmarked" airliners at what I humoured you to be Area 51.
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$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2006-12-04 21:08
Of course Ghosts are real. How else do you explain Goth's innumberable "Leaving" posts? His spirit has work left do be done on this earth.. Ranks to attain... Twinkies to devour...
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-RevenG-
Raven Warriors
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 2673
| Posted: 2006-12-04 21:09
Sythe wins.
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Hawk™
Cadet
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 570
From: Lagtopia, Lag system.
| Posted: 2006-12-04 21:22
Chad you not supposed to flame... but roflmao.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2006-12-05 09:02
Sythe > This junky thread.
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Capt.picard
Admiral
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 97
From: Peterborough, England
| Posted: 2006-12-05 11:42
For aliens & alien civilisations may i direct you to the drake equation basically it gives an estimated number of alien civilisations in our galaxy that are capable of radio communication (note it says radio communication, there may be many even more advanced civilsations which have found a better way to communicate), using the standard setting on the calcuator (which is the best guess of scientists) it comes out at about 1,000. but most of those pieces of information are guess, it could be alot higher or alot lower, however this is the most likely answer with data available.
on the subject of ghosts, i think my house is haunted  , but that probably cos its kinda old and the pipes rattle alot... i personally believe that all ghost sightings can be explained through scientific means, electrical disturbances, halucinations caused by illness, tricks of light etc.
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2006-12-05 13:07
I just did the drake equation and maybe I am reading it wrong, but I think there might not be other life out there.
I put in these numbers:
100 Billion
10%
0.33
5%
0.001%
80%
1/1,000,000th (10,000 years)
The answer came out to:
the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy =
0.0013200000000000002
It seems that even WE barely exist based on this equation. Now, I am pretty well educated in astrophysics and I think the numbers I chose were rather modest, although I was trying to low-ball it a little, but for it to be THIS low suggests that we are perhaps alone. Either this equation has problems or we are not going to come across too many other 'people' out there.
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Ramius
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 12, 2002
Posts: 894
From: Ramius
| Posted: 2006-12-05 13:09
In the context of ghosts and UFOs… there is perhaps an alternate explanation for these different types of phenomenon. Let us analyze the changing social dynamics of the 20th century. Since the advent of the industrial revolution and the preliminary scientific works done by the venerated scientists of the past, our society (that is to say, Western civilization) has gone through a period of reprioritization of the social norms.
What were the particulars of this rearrangement? Well, after the rise of the scientific revolution, which culminated by the 1950’s, the world’s major religions suffered a major setback. Prior to World War II most of Western society did not accept science as wholly as it did following the end of the war. In fact, due to the United States’ particular affinity for isolationism after World War I, the US was still a highly religious culture. This was seen to a lesser degree in the European countries, Greece and Spain being exempt. Following the end of World War II, due to the massive amounts of technological breakthroughs, the US and Europe finally accepted science and technology as essential to everyday life for the average citizen. Thus, the religions of the world suffered a major setback. There was a paradigm shift between having the God and the unexplained as ways to define the world around us to having empirical evidence to explain everything.
However, I find it more than just coincidental that at this time the presence of pseudoscience began to rise dramatically. UFOs were unheard of before World War II, all of sudden there was a massive inquiry of this phenomenon. People began reporting sites everywhere. Ghosts, telekenesis, spontaneous combustions, strange creatures (Loch Ness, Bigfoot), ESP also showed a dramatic increase in sightings and awareness.
I believe with the inherent loss of religion, humanity always searches for something that cannot be explained. Before, everyone would just attribute this to God. Now that God was removed from the picture, humans had to come up with new things that could not be easily explained. I think, people believe fundamentally that not everything can be explained, or else the Universe and the world would be rather dull, bland, and not leave room for something fantastic to occur. Without religion to grant miracles, blessings and prayers, what did people turn to? They perverted scientific rigor into creating amazing phenomena that simply could not be explained.
As the world globalized and borders between East and West fell, the sightings and phenomena began to appear everywhere. And that’s where we are today. Do I believe aliens exist? As the other people in this thread have pointed out, I think it’s pretty foolish to think extraterrestrial life does not exist. However, there is simply no way for “UFOs” from other worlds to be on Earth. As for ghosts, and other such things… The mind is an incredibly powerful organ. Given the right variables, you can believe almost anything. I think all of those phenomena are simply gross over-amplifications of something that can be explained with science.
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