| Author |
welcome to ships/wepons 101 |
Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
|  Posted: 2005-05-17 06:27
hello class 
*edit* THE BEST SHIP IN THE GAME IS THE SHIP THAT YOU CAN SCORE HITS WITH *edit* just had to add that at the top as people seem to be missing that all impoertant point...
Scout- best used under ecm... if you like to die or like to help the bombers out this is the ship for you...
frigate- best used with a dict as any ship above it can kill you very fast
destroyer- good alround ship (best luth ships), best used with a dict as anything larger than it can kill you
crusers- best alround ships in the game (unless you are luth)- look out a dicts as it maybe hard to get away
dreads- great big targets with a lot of wepons, best used with the support of the fleet - look out for dicts as you will not be able to get away
station- useless save for the WH (unless you are ICC- makes for a good support platform)
fleet formation...
the most important ship in the game is the bomber if you have no bomber you may as well give up
next we will need a supply ship for the bomber
now a dict is a good 3rd... it may not be big on wepons but it will let the bomber hit any ungarded planet because the interdicter will stop any ship from trying to stop the bomber at 1000gu out giveing enough time to compleat the run
next are the mainstay ships if you are ICC or UGTO you will need HC/AC and BC/TC... if you are luth destroyers are a must...
once you have 4+ cusers/destroyers it is time to add some dreads... though i find unless you a camping the planets dreads are about useless... easy reson is if there is a dict flying you will die...
there is no imbalence... this preseved imbalence comes from not thinking about what is happening and picking a dread thinking it will pawn all...
i see a fleet of dreads and all i can think is free pres... me goes jumps into a dict and the rest of the team gets a few destroyers and we pawn thouse dreads... you forget it matters not what ship you fly only that you can get hits in... even at flank speed in a dread you are not going to get into wepons range to even think about fireing...
wepons/food for thought
the dreaded flux wave... most hated wepon in the game and yet people still use it... most people dont use it right (or the right number for that matter)... so you get your ship and you mount it with all flux wave... you fly into combat... flux your target... (assumeing he doesnt have lots of flux and fluxes you back) now what do you do? well not much.. all flux means no torps... no torps and it is rather hard to kill anything... you may say (and some have) "now my team comes and pawns you"... wrong answer... never count on your team... most of the time they are busy with their oun fights/repares to come and help you... makes it rather counter productive to take a combat ship and render it near useless...
personaly i like to take 1 of the forward torp mounts and replace it with a flux wave... "what good is 1?" makes all the differesnce when used right... say you are stuck in a dict and need to get out... well the tool is at hand... fly to the target ship... take out its sheilds/armor and flux away... E-jump and you are free. bomber comeing? well jump on over nail the armor/shields and flux away... why wate for all the bombs to be deployed when you can stop them now... getting pounded and you need to buy your self a few sec to get far enough away from a planet to jump? hitting the flux may just buy you the time you need... the power drain is masive when you light one off... useing it to strike first doesnt work... the range is so small you will only nail 1 ship and the rest that are in range will be hardly affected
torps... the many flavors... easy mod rule, the bigger the ship the smaller the torps... luth torps on destroyers and smaller... UGTO torps on crusers... ICC torps on dreads and bigger... the slower your ship, the harder it is to stay at the best range for the torps so the smaller torps you will need to score a hit...
missiles... most usless wepons in the game... PD will shoot them down... there is almost no chance of getting a hit... dont even need PD just dodge em... best used for "fun" or to overload a planets PD to help a bomber get some bombs down
guns... psi cannons are the strongest but have the shortest range... railguns/gause have the longest range but hit for next to nothing... partical cannons are fair in range and damage
lasers... disrupters - second most poweful laser in the game... masive power drain and long reload time makes this a wepond you do not want to fire that often... CL's good on range and fair recharge time/power consumption (CL2000 most powerfule laser in the game)... elf power draining only, long reload time... flux cannon weak on damage but it disables systems and is easy on the power, long reload time
no point in the rest of the equipment... AME is the drive you want, AMJ is the jumpdrive you want, reactor 1500 is the auxpower plant you want...
trator beams are only good for pulling a bomber off his bombs (and that only works if the bomber cannt fly) but if you are close enough to use the trator beam you are more than likely close enough to just run them over... rocks can be towed but it is easyer to just bomb the planet then to try and hit it with rocks lol...
few ponters...
always have troops... dont go trying to cap every ship you see (it does not happen often and as soon as there are no emy ships in the area the captuered ship flys off)... with out troops there is no point and you are just takeing up space... may sound dumb but ive been the bomber saying drop and yet no one has troops resoning that they are combat ships and do not need troops (yes i know dumb)... if you fear getting your dread too close to a planet to drop troops give them to someone elce...
when fighting luth eccm is your friend/keep a reactor in your cargo hold and change out when needed
when fighting as luth ecm is your friend/put in your cargo hold and change out when it is needed
manuvering in combat is very important and i dont mean left/right... never fly at top speed unless you are closeing on a target or running... you want to run at 4/5 speed (unless you are in a dread... there is no dodgeing in a dread)... 4/5 speed is not a set in stone, cure all... you want to be moveing as slow as you can and still be able to dodge and be able to hit the target... keep in mind that incressing your speed decresses your need to change direction to avoid incoming fire... doing that also greatly incresses your power reserves...
that is all today class 
some one with more knowhow feel free to add anything of use
[small][ This Message was edited by: Thorium on 2005-05-17 18:22 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: Thorium on 2005-05-17 18:22 ]
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-05-17 06:43
1: Actually, it shows that theres something seriously wrong with balance if a small pack of destroyers can pwn an entire fleet of dreads. If thats the case, what the hell is the point to getting dreads? We might as well remove the prestiege system as its worthless than.
2: Anyone who gets pwned by a dessy in a dread, unless its a crap dread vs a Kluth dessy (And we know Kluth Dessys have the firepower of ICC Assault cruisers), deserves to be demoted to midshipman.
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Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
| Posted: 2005-05-17 07:21
um ya...
what makes you think a dread is going to win against a destroyer if it cannt ever get into wepons range? a smart fleet uses a dict and small ships...
dreads are for defending/attacking planets and support fire for the fleet (not to mention a great big target that says shoot me... drawing the fire of the other side)... if the opposing fleet is flying a dict put the slow ships away... it matters not how much armor or wepons you have if you can never get into range to fire...
the best ship is not the one with the most wepons... the best ship is the ship you can score hits with...
[small][ This Message was edited by: Thorium on 2005-05-17 07:27 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: Thorium on 2005-05-17 07:33 ]
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BipBipBip
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 01, 2004
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2005-05-17 10:23
Nice reading Thorium
I agree with all this.
I find smaller ships harder to kill.
Right now the ship that gives me the most trouble is the UGTO assault destroyer.
Anything bigger is easier to hit.
Cya!
[ This Message was edited by: LastFreeSoul on 2005-05-17 10:53 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-05-17 11:24
Dreads are meant to be able to look at single or two destroyers and shrug and go for the bigger fish. Destroyers arnt meant to take dreads full stop. The reason kluth destroyers can in release is because they are vastly overpowered, and always have been. This is being fixed in beta, so that all destroyers need to work in packs of 3-4+ to take down the average dread pilot.
Stations, im sorry to say, are not useless. Unless your some fool thinking stations are scouts with lots of weapons and armour, they are vastly powerfull in remote system ops and planet defending. Their arment can be changed for IT missiles, and the CL2K's/ruptors make anything within range DEAD if its bellow cruiser hull.
The mainstay of any fleet should be the cruisers and dreads, more towards the dreads than anything, as their armour and heavy weaponry can move through at a slow pace taking on anything in its way. Cruisers are meant to zip around killing the slower paced hulls that cant be attacked using a dread, their weapons arnt really meant for taking on dread hulls ( although in a pack (2-3), i'd imagine the cruiser could take on an average dread pilot.
In any case, most of us know that the dread = better. It has too, otherwise whats the point in getting it last? Having said that, the other ships DO have their uses.
But, you shouldnt be seeing a fleet of dreads or cruisers in a destroyer and be thinking "free prestige". You should be thinking "HOLY HELL IM GOING TO DIE RATHER QUICKLY!". A dread, should be able to kill ANYTHING that comes in its path. It may seem like its unbalanced, but a dread is a DREAD and its meant to be feared and the best hull any fleet can muster up.
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| dreads are for defending/attacking planets and support fire for the fleet (not to mention a great big target that says shoot me... drawing the fire of the other side)... if the opposing fleet is flying a dict put the slow ships away... it matters not how much armor or wepons you have if you can never get into range to fire... |
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Im afraid your wrong. Dreads (combat) are meant for heavy combat, they are there to provide the main staying power of the fleet and provide the heavy guns that take down the ships. Dictors wont be a problem, as your armour is heavy enough to sustain smaller ships firing at you (unless theres a large amount). In beta, if I see a small ship, I ignore it. Its not going to do any real damage on its own. Havign said that, dreads CAN be used to defend and attack planets. Their role in defending the fleet is priority in these type of engagements. Without their heavy armour, hulls and weaponry, they cannot sustain the planets fire allowing the smaller ships to zip through and bomb it. The one thing a dread cant do, is be the tackler. This is a ship that chases down the enemy ship and disables it if its running away. The dread should deal the killing blow, or be dealing the damage over time.
Having all said this, the kluth dessy > dread problem gets fixed in beta, dreads are powerfull now, and anything smaller needs to pair up to be able to do enough damage to make it want to retreat. Its great, I love it. Dreads are turning into the machines of war they should.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-05-17 11:33 ]
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Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
| Posted: 2005-05-17 17:25
once again you over look the importance on the dict... if you cannt jump to your target how are you going to kill it with a dread???
but hey ill just keep milking yall for pres and yall can just contiune to get killed over and over whineing about imbalence...
if you have a good sized fleet a station is a good thing to have but you will need 2 dreads to fly cover for it... still have to laugh at the at the all IT station... the only thing you will hit is targets at a stand still with their PD off... if you fire on ships being attacked by freindlys it is likely you will hit your friends as the smart pilot keeps the small fish between it and the large fish
i find it laughable to think that a fleet of dreads can take on a diverce fleet and win... yes yes the luth destryer has the wepons of a AC/TC ON A HULL THAT IS WEAKERS THAN A UGTO OR ICC DESTROYER... it is not often we even use luth combat crusers as they all suck...
buy hey i tryed to help...
The way of the supply- few ways to go about this... you can sit in open space in an area you can jump to most areas in a system to repare/rearm
or sit at a planet and wate if the ships to come to you...
i prefer to fly with the fleet... no matter what you are supplying always keep the ship you are supplying between you and the attacking ships... if supplying a bomber always keep the bomber between you and the planet... give the bomber a few secounds before jumping after him when he jumps to target... if you dont you may run over his bombs when you come out of "warp"... never ever hit f or g when supplying a bomber... you will get in the way if the bomber make many looping runs... also if the bomber hits the planet you tend to hit that same planet so never hit the g or f when supplying a bomber...
most important to the ships being supplyed and your oun profile is going to the ship that needs supply instead of haveing the ships that need supply comeing to you... i find that when the supply ship doesnt come to the ships in need, the ships in need will just find a depo and go there instead of trying to get to the supply ship... far easyer for them to jump to a planet than to jump the the supply only to find the supply has already jumped away (or worst jumped to where you were heh)... as a supply before you jump to the ship in need let him know you are comeing use the secure channel to get his attention as it will show the text in red...
[ This Message was edited by: Thorium on 2005-05-17 17:40 ]
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2005-05-17 17:45
Quote:
| destroyer- good alround ship (best luth ships), best used with a dict as anything larger than it can kill you |
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Balanced? Where in the name of Bito's Cheese do you get balanced? They have more beams than a bloody Battle Dread, wich enough of those beams can equal the power of a dread! You can add Elf and flux to the dessies, and the automaticaly become as good, or even better, than any cruiser in the ICC or UGTO arsenal.
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| crusers- best alround ships in the game (unless you are luth)- look out a dicts as it maybe hard to get away |
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Cruisers happen to be a K'luth strong point, they have many beams, many torps.
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| dreads- great big targets with a lot of wepons, best used with the support of the fleet - look out for dicts as you will not be able to get away |
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Wrong, utterly wrong. K'luth Dreads are a strong point. They can give a good ammount of fire on enemy, and they can be very manuverable if used right.
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| station- useless save for the WH (unless you are ICC- makes for a good support platform) |
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UGTO stations are mainly for support, same as ICC..The ICC Station can be used as a long range support. Now, the K'luth Hive can be used for all occasions, planet seige,combat,supply. It can do it.
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Namra
Admiral
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 37
| Posted: 2005-05-17 18:04
Quote:
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On 2005-05-17 17:25, Thorium wrote:
once again you over look the importance on the dict... if you cannt jump to your target how are you going to kill it with a dread???
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Drive the interdictor off with either missile/chase with a destroyer? You know, that IS one of the ship's sole purposes.
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| but hey ill just keep milking yall for pres and yall can just contiune to get killed over and over whineing about imbalence... |
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Over and over - That is what ticks us off. A group of claws added with a piercer can be a devastating force to the ICC, and a cataclysmic eruption to the UGTO. With our armor system as it is, a few rounds of torpedos have shot down the EAD's all-around single armor slot, and is quickly sapping away the health of one of our side slots. Which, conveniatly, you can remain latched on to with your high mobility. Can we fight back? No. Our weapons (which, with you usually at a comfortable a range, are usually torpedos) are still attempting to recover from the set-back you threw in their faces, courtesy of the ELF beam.
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| if you have a good sized fleet a station is a good thing to have but you will need 2 dreads to fly cover for it... still have to laugh at the at the all IT station... the only thing you will hit is targets at a stand still with their PD off... if you fire on ships being attacked by freindlys it is likely you will hit your friends as the smart pilot keeps the small fish between it and the large fish |
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IT stations are far beyond the reach of useless. Time and again do they drive away full-speed piercers, pummel ganglias into submission, and can still put injured ships who have been hit with flux back into the fight. True, against the ICC, they are more ineffective than against K'luth, but that is based solely on ship structure. ICC, who can fly Pulse Beams, will naturally be able to stop some or all of the missiles before they reach a target. But honestly, who would drag an IT station out without ANY fighter/missile support? The IT station is capable of adding more power to the smokescreen, and are often smashing into active shields before being shot down. The K'luth are highly vulnerable to it, as a well-placed ECCM will either; A) Frighten you into running, B) Make you waste one of your slow-reloading beams, leaving you open to close-combat methods, or C) Crush you into small heaps of dust.
In short, it is versatile.
Quote:
| i find it laughable to think that a fleet of dreads can take on a diverce fleet and win... yes yes the luth destryer has the wepons of a AC/TC ON A HULL THAT IS WEAKERS THAN A UGTO OR ICC DESTROYER... it is not often we even use luth combat crusers as they all suck...
buy hey i tryed to help... |
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Dreads are ships designed to induce a sense of rethinking about your combat plan, and being able to drive a fleet into deep space and surviving. Instead, we are driven off by a ship that a commander can fly with ease. Unbalanced? Of course not!
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Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
| Posted: 2005-05-17 18:14
note that the wepons on luth crusers are foward fireing not full... sort of hard to get hits with out getting hit do to the full torp slots of the AC/TC...
besides the way to kill luth is with guns not torps... useing torps means you have to get close and getting close means faceing the ELF and flux cannos 
im sorry but there was nothing i liked more when playing UGTO than to rip up luth ships... BC's and dict work wonders and then we will see how well that luth dread serves you...
i love that "luth destroyers have the beams of a BD"... many ships do but luth ships need to use elf (no damage) and flux cannons (low damage) to use them repeatedly... note the small hull.. note the lack of power... note the lack of armor...
use guns... they do good damage at range and if you are hit by elf you can keep on fireing do to the low recharge time/low power needs...
use your head... brute force will not serve you as the dict makes dreads imputent...
[ This Message was edited by: Thorium on 2005-05-17 18:17 ]
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2005-05-17 20:22
It's a very good point actually - that a Dreadnought can't close-jump a destroyer while in an enemy dictor field. There is a way to stay competitive though while flying a Dreadnought in these conditions.
Wingmen
I used to think Dreadnoughts were merely targets - and they can be - if not flown well. To be honest, I'm not even sure how to describe what I mean as being the right way...but when it happens, you'll know. Some of the best pilots I've head the pleasure to fly with always seem to be right where you need them to be to help you -- or for you to help them.
Nax
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2005-05-17 20:40
Quote:
| torps... the many flavors... easy mod rule, the bigger the ship the smaller the torps... luth torps on destroyers and smaller... UGTO torps on crusers... ICC torps on dreads and bigger... the slower your ship, the harder it is to stay at the best range for the torps so the smaller torps you will need to score a hit... |
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I must disagree. If you're ship is fast enough to outfly what your fighting, you can make shots with an excellent probability of scoring a direct hit. Your going to want the ikcy torps if you're in a destroyer fighting something slow, like a dread, for the range, DOT, and ammo.
Its when you're in a slow ship, trying to fight off k'luth destroyers that you need to pull anti matter. You won't make many direct hits from an AC on a drainer, so you need the superior det range.
UGTO torps? Never. Same det range as the icky torps, less range, less damage over time, less ammo, slower.
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2005-05-18 10:54
Moved to Tactics and New Players.
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rnrn
DarkSpace Developer - Retired
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Legatus Immolation
Marshal
Joined: December 20, 2004
Posts: 384
| Posted: 2005-05-18 11:15
ur kinda forgetting the fact with the dict and dread thing here..
Ok it is a good way to thing 1 dict and 1-3 desseys V 1 Dread = 1 dead dread.. it would seem possible. but say that dread pilot isnt that dumb. they would figure out how to get away or cause mass distrcution.
the way they would do it.
Dict comes.. dread chases it. dict dosent sustain too much damage and runs away but not too far that dread can get away. Desseys jump in and take on dread. now here is where the dread is ment to fail. but here is were it couldnt here are 2 ways it couldnt.
1. call for back up. anyhting will do. a BC or Dread or anything will help and there are usually alot of folk in UGTO rdy to help out.
2. if no one is about or no one cant be bothered. or u feel like being brave uwill take on the fleet.
now here is how i would do it. i would work off 1 desey with psi and CL and as soon as it hits 80% hull id go tothe next and so on to the next. then id reel them in close thinking im damaged beyond reapir with systems. and BANG hit them with my 2 flux. causing them alot of systems damage and therefor finishing them off. then if the dict wasnt in helping id chase after it and try and get to it.. if i couldnt.. well thatsanother story.
Dreads arent what u think. it depends on who is using them. i use my dread as if it were a multi purpose flying combat station. ill jump in and kill anything on sight. (apart from scouts) i will then chase down my prey and follow it to the bitter end depending on the curcumstances. (Rogue and Devil should have relised this) but dreads can be used 4 anything. and i usually have mine out all the time. and as soon as i got it i started getting more kills than killed. (dosent mean anyhting) and now i mbold enough to take on ships 1on1. and have the anual laugh when Wolf6 comes over in his dessey and fluxes me with about 4-2 flux without any hull damage. and ilaugh then kill him.
Dreads ar egood fun and in the wrong/right hands can be deadly to all
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-05-18 15:06
Dreads cant be used for anything. Different ships, have different roles. For instance, a certain player a few days ago was using a carrier dread as if it where a TC/EAD. WRONG, you dont do this, you let the ships that are designed to be front line attack ships, do the attacking. I hate seeing people using their ship just about in every wrong way that it could be used.
Carrier is support, not an attacking ship full stop
EAD is short-long range attack (depends on config)
BD is short-long range attack (depends on config)
Command is support, not an attacking ship full stop
Much the same with the ICC only replace the Carrier with Missile, and the EAD > AD, BD > CD (I know it aint great, but it does have a few uses).
For kluth, every dread is an attack ship, so no need to really define them.
Needless to say, you shouldnt be getting within 2000gu of an enemy in a Carrier and Missile dread. I laught at people who try to kill a dread with the 3 CL2k's on the Carrier, or load out all torps on the MD, to make it UTTERLY USELESS, if you want to battle, use the relative ship to do it, if you CANT use an battle class dread, then go down a hull size, because a TC is MUCH better than a Carrier dread, in just about EVERY way in battle, you may think you look 'vet' like in that Carrier trying to attack 3 Siphons...but really, all your doing, is showing the rest of us who have already learned this lesson, that you have no concept in ship type use. Having said that, most of us have been there before, dont make the mistake of using a ship for what its not designed to do, it just makes you look silly.
Once again, if you want to do battle, and dont have the BD/CD EAD/AD, use the cruiser battle ships, they will be MUCH more effective in battle, compaired to the MD/CD.
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Lok
Cadet
Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 4
| Posted: 2005-05-20 10:53
This is a lot of information to be obsorbed by those new to Dark Space but I can see that 90% of the arguments are relative to circumstance.
I do have a question though regarding dreads and range. A comment was made that a dict can halt a dread outside of firing range and make him an easier target for destroyers .... the question this begs, is if the destroyers can get into the range THEREAFTER, doesn't that mean that they too are now in range of the Dread?
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