| Author |
Carriers |
Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
|  Posted: 2012-10-15 07:43
So, the other day I decided to build up a carrier. I figured it could be of some use, so I bought some new enhancements. I decided to make a stealth Command Carrier. With some enh, and tweaking, I got it perfectly how I wanted it. 0 signature while launching fighters. Then... I found something out. Fighters are still virtually useless, and entirely broken.
The SRR, the one with the scanner... it doesn't do anything, at all. It doesn't even light up buildings on enemy planets like a normal scanner does. On top of that, even though the description says it is a stealth craft, it can still be seen on radar, even while in my ECM area.
That brings me to the next point. ECM has no shielding effect on fighters. Players are still able to see them the moment you launch them, and track you easily using that.
Also, they do very very little damage. I thought this was changed a while back... but it seems they do virtually no damage again. On top of that, they only last a couple minutes, then just all randomly explode.
tl:dr More wasted credits, Fighters suck
Little update. More players are saying they can see me 100% of the time, even with ecm on and fighters not being used. One was even able to track me after a 40 second jump. How's about a refund for those ecm amplifiers since it doesn't even work...
[ This Message was edited by: Whiterin on 2012-10-15 08:19 ]
_________________
|
Verox
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: September 14, 2012
Posts: 6
| Posted: 2012-10-15 08:33
I can confirm this. While flying in a gunboat dessie today Whiterin became visible at 1100 gu, I didn't have much trouble targeting at all. I could even track Whiterin's carrier and had no trouble spotting the ship while I jumped past.
_________________
|
The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2012-10-15 08:46
Firstly even if they were cloaked in your ECM field, they'd become visible when they left.
Fighters go in a straight line to the destination so people will find you anyways, the difference the ECM would have on this is probably less then a few seconds for some people.
If your trying to cover the fighters using ECM at close range, then the ECM might not enough to counter the sig of the fighters zooming around at 60gu/s~ (i forget the speed)
Naturally you can't hide your ship under that ECM unless you go to the extreme ranges of ship detection (5k), and once the fighters are launched your on a deadline anyways.
Used to roll round with the Command Carrier with all ECM, sit at range and send fighter waves into a battle, eventually you'll get caught out with the straight line of the fighters.
Also your fighters come back to you if the target is outside 5k.
The case about lighting up people as you jump past them is also a non-issue, as targets become auto-visible at i think 100 or 150gu.
No amount of ECM will help, and 1.1k is not enough to cover your dreads sig.
Edit to Edit: You jump in a straight line, all the enemy has to do is jump on the same degree but farther, when you pop up hit J.
Since your a dread they can probably miss you by about 2k? even with ecm.
Unless your a Kluth, you have to jump long, to a safe planet or when the enemy is distracted.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2012-10-15 08:49 ]
_________________
|
Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-10-15 09:16
Quote:
|
The SRR, the one with the scanner... it doesn't do anything, at all. It doesn't even light up buildings on enemy planets like a normal scanner does. On top of that, even though the description says it is a stealth craft, it can still be seen on radar, even while in my ECM area.
|
|
I have no idea what the SRR is equipped with but I don't think it's a normal scanner. I think it might be ECCM, actually. I'll look into it (or hopefully somebody else can)
Quote:
|
That brings me to the next point. ECM has no shielding effect on fighters. Players are still able to see them the moment you launch them, and track you easily using that.
|
|
This might be due to latency, they can see the fighters before the local ECM "updates" to covers their signature. Or it might be buggy. I'll look into it.
Quote:
|
Also, they do very very little damage. I thought this was changed a while back... but it seems they do virtually no damage again. On top of that, they only last a couple minutes, then just all randomly explode.
|
|
I thought fighters actually did a good amount of dps? I don't think they have changed recently either. I'll run their numbers later tonight to see what they do
Quote:
|
Little update. More players are saying they can see me 100% of the time, even with ecm on and fighters not being used. One was even able to track me after a 40 second jump. How's about a refund for those ecm amplifiers since it doesn't even work...
|
|
1) ECM doesn't make your physical model disappear, people can still see the ship and the ecm 'ping' effect
2) Unless you're EXACTLY at zero signature or below zero signature you won't be off their FoF Radar. It's possible the Sig said "0.00" but you really had "0.000000001" or some other small number for signature.
3) Unless the enhancements didn't increase the power of the ECM then I'd say they're working as intended
[ This Message was edited by: Fattierob on 2012-10-15 09:16 ]
_________________
|
Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2012-10-15 09:16
Carrier are`nt really meant for Raids on yoru own like that, as Fridge put out, there are multiple ways to track a carrier doing so, Very easy if your alone.
Carrier is more of a support ship to a fleet. If a Fleet attacks a target/planet, The best idea for the carrier is to hang behind the line along witht he station if any and just shoot out fighters
at that point hopefully the enemy will either ignore concentrating fire on the larger threat. or play dumb and go after you just for an easy kill ( in wish you deny him that and jump away)
EDIT: SSR have ECCM equipped To spot distant target (Makes also Kluth Raise sig= spend more energy)
Jack Had the idea to make a new Anti-ship fighter Equipped with a larger cannon design to hit a dread and bigger, the projectil would travel too slow to hit faster smaller ships
[ This Message was edited by: Zero28[Helper] on 2012-10-15 09:19 ]
_________________
19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
|
Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
| Posted: 2012-10-15 09:40
fighters DPS wise seem to act like a small scout with 1 normal cannon (psi, particle, rail) or a scout with 1 normal beam.
with fighters maxed to a certain amount it seems like when all fighters fire at enemy its like 16 cannons, but, the fighters only shoot once 15 sec average, where a player with cannons shoot them more often.
i think to balance the fighters they should fire more often..in other words brake when in firing range of enemy, speed up when breaking attack and gaining range. also, a bigger arc to fire weapons might help.
All this, of course, stengthens the carrier. the question is, how much more strenght does it need?
_________________
my signature is awesome
|
Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-10-15 10:08
At the time this was happening I had between -.5 and -.1 signature and was still able to be spotted easily at over 1100 gu.
The SRR doesn't have ECCM, and if it does, it is EXTREMELY weak as it doesn't change my signature at all, not even .1. The description says it has a scanner, so that's what I assumed it had as it said it, and has no affect on signature.
I remember a couple years ago they increased fighter damage and range, but the damage seems to be terrible again. I can't even kill dessys in the carrier dread... hell, can't even hull them.
_________________
|
Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2012-10-15 10:14
Quote:
|
On 2012-10-15 10:08, Whiterin wrote:
At the time this was happening I had between -.5 and -.1 signature and was still able to be spotted easily at over 1100 gu.
The SRR doesn't have ECCM, and if it does, it is EXTREMELY weak as it doesn't change my signature at all, not even .1. The description says it has a scanner, so that's what I assumed it had as it said it, and has no affect on signature.
I remember a couple years ago they increased fighter damage and range, but the damage seems to be terrible again. I can't even kill dessys in the carrier dread... hell, can't even hull them.
|
|
SSR`s ECCM are very weak, back in the days, we needed a bunch of them to even make luth feel somehting. im not sure if they changed since then
I know that the fighter changed so they can shoot from outside the PD range of ships. and the interceptor`s Beam did get a damage buff(I think). They never miss their target. good for Small ships
Fighters will not hit Frigs or dessie moving at high speed. ANd im really not certain if their damage was changed at all
@Fattie. Their DPS may seem good on Drawing and numbers. but the fact they lose most of it just in maneuvers can change alot
[ This Message was edited by: Zero28[Helper] on 2012-10-15 10:17 ]
_________________
19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
|
Scorched Soul[+R]
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 378
From: USA, NJ, Princeton
| Posted: 2012-10-15 13:21
Honestly carriers are a joke right now and pretty much have been since they put an end to nuking planets with fighter bombers at 10k. As it stands carriers are a free dinner in my book and I wouldnt mind if fighters got a small boost. On the other hand carriers are still vice admiral ships (if i remember correctly) and should stay in line with the other ships of equivilent rank, which is to say that if you manage to kill another dread in a carrier 1v1 something is horribly wrong.
_________________
![Email Scorched Soul[+R]](http://www1.palestar.com/gamecq/phpBB/images/email.gif)
|
Verox
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: September 14, 2012
Posts: 6
| Posted: 2012-10-15 13:36
Quote:
|
On 2012-10-15 09:16, Fattierob wrote:
1) ECM doesn't make your physical model disappear, people can still see the ship and the ecm 'ping' effect
2) Unless you're EXACTLY at zero signature or below zero signature you won't be off their FoF Radar. It's possible the Sig said "0.00" but you really had "0.000000001" or some other small number for signature.
3) Unless the enhancements didn't increase the power of the ECM then I'd say they're working as intended
|
|
Whiterin had negative signature when I could target the carrier at 1100 gu. It was not only visible, it could be targeted as well by pressing 'e'.
_________________
|
Toppopia
1st Rear Admiral
Vanguard
Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 1
| Posted: 2012-10-15 14:37
And i have been wondering when will fighters beable to PD missiles or other fighters? Maybe make it so only the fighters that shoot lasers can do that. Imagine a massive ship battle, then seeing 20+ fighters zooming around blowing eachother up. Because being able to use fighters as missile protection would be wonderful to have.
But that sounds like it could be hard to code, or is it possible just to give a fighter a pulse laser maybe and then set it to PD?
[ This Message was edited by: Toppopia on 2012-10-15 14:37 ]
_________________
|
The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2012-10-15 15:00
Quote:
|
On 2012-10-15 14:37, Toppopia wrote:
But that sounds like it could be hard to code, or is it possible just to give a fighter a pulse laser maybe and then set it to PD?
|
|
If the weapon falls under Laser, id imagine it'd have a PD mode, they'd then have to code it so that all fighters on launch have PD on.
Or make a interceptor (not a fighter with an assault beam) and code it so it has a cl with short range and PD on.
I asked if they could do what i said (a while back probably more then a year ago)
Didn't get a response though.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2012-10-15 15:30 ]
_________________
|
Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2012-10-15 15:44
Quote:
|
On 2012-10-15 15:00, The Fridge wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2012-10-15 14:37, Toppopia wrote:
But that sounds like it could be hard to code, or is it possible just to give a fighter a pulse laser maybe and then set it to PD?
|
|
If the weapon falls under Laser, id imagine it'd have a PD mode, they'd then have to code it so that all fighters on launch have PD on.
Or make a interceptor (not a fighter with an assault beam) and code it so it has a cl with short range and PD on.
I asked if they could do what i said (a while back probably more then a year ago)
Didn't get a response though.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2012-10-15 15:30 ]
|
|
Because of the way they coded fighters, they can't do the simple solution of giving them a laser for PD. We have been over this, fighters are considered projectiles, not as 'ships'.
Besides, having fighters constantly checking for PD targets all the time would cause unnecessary strain on the server if there are enough of them...
I honestly don't think the 'interceptor' fighter idea is worth the trouble.
_________________
I be rebuilding your planets!
|
Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-10-15 16:54
Quote:
|
On 2012-10-15 13:21, Scorched Soul[+R][Help] wrote:
Honestly carriers are a joke right now and pretty much have been since they put an end to nuking planets with fighter bombers at 10k. As it stands carriers are a free dinner in my book and I wouldnt mind if fighters got a small boost. On the other hand carriers are still vice admiral ships (if i remember correctly) and should stay in line with the other ships of equivilent rank, which is to say that if you manage to kill another dread in a carrier 1v1 something is horribly wrong.
|
|
The one I was in was a dread, not a cruiser. It was an Admiral class ship, same as the Combat Dread. Honestly, to make them even close to being useful as a dread, which they are, they would need more powerful fighters AND some weapons on the ship. For it to be "in line with other ships of equivilent rank" it would need a massive redesign. Wasn't even what I was asking, was just saying there are lots of issues with it.
_________________
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-10-15 17:39
Fighters do suck unless you're using massed Interceptors against smaller ships, or ships with reflective armor/reactive shields. Yes, that's right, Interceptors do projectile damage even though they're armed with beams because fighters themselves are projectiles.
Of course if you're luth the Interceptors are stupidly powerful either way since they do more damage than the ICC and UGTO equivalents.
Quote:
|
On 2012-10-15 10:08, Whiterin wrote:
At the time this was happening I had between -.5 and -.1 signature and was still able to be spotted easily at over 1100 gu.
The SRR doesn't have ECCM, and if it does, it is EXTREMELY weak as it doesn't change my signature at all, not even .1. The description says it has a scanner, so that's what I assumed it had as it said it, and has no affect on signature.
I remember a couple years ago they increased fighter damage and range, but the damage seems to be terrible again. I can't even kill dessys in the carrier dread... hell, can't even hull them.
|
|
Each hull size has a set distance it will be detectable and targetable at regardless of how far in the negative your signature is. I know Cruisers are targetable at around 500 GU, and if I remember right Dreadnoughts are right about that 1100 range where you were being targeted.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
