| Author |
Luth Issues Calm Rational Discussion |
Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
|  Posted: 2012-09-22 10:39
Alright, so it may not be so much of a rant, as it is a list of things I have noticed lately with Luth. With all issues I will list here, there were other players there that withnessed the issue as well. On discussing it in game, I have found that other players have experienced all of the issues outside of the times I experienced them.
- Station camping
Not so much of a glitch or bug, it's pretty unfair, and I don't think it was intended as a game mechanic. Part of a station's job is to shield smaller or damaged ships. Some Luth players have been using this to there advantage, however. There have been several times where luth players, sometimes several of them at once, spawn siphons and sit on "top" of ICC stations. This makes it impossible to hit them with anything but beams, and since a siphon is a beam heavy ship, it gives them free reign to fire on anyone while remaing in relative safety of the enemy's station. This shouldn't be possible to do and can cause major balance issues in game.
- Shroud Missles
While I personally feel these things are pretty OP normally (invisible, hard to detect even with ECCM, powerful, fast reload time, more accurate then the most accurate small missles of other factions), that's not the point of this post. Earlier today, myself and some other ICC were fighting stations. We were being hit, with nearly 100% accuracy, by shroud missles. The problem with this is, we were at point blank range, 200 gu or closer away from the station. We were being hit by beams and missles from the same station. Asking around, I found the minimum range of shrouds to be 300-350 gu... yet they were hitting, with great accuracy, at 200 gu, and sometimes even closer then that. I'm not sure if it's a glitch, abuse of game mechanics, or what... but it's pretty insane to be able to be hit by beams and missles at the same time while fighting.
- Insane levels of defense power. I am pretty sure this is a glitch/abuse, and not the new changes to Chit armor. A few times over the past few days, myself and other ICC have run into luth ships that defy what luth ships can do. Siphons that can tank MULTIPLE dreads, including damage enh ADs, with ease and stations that take so little damage they can out repair the damage multiple dreads shooting them. This has happened on three seperate ocasions that just I have witnessed. I know though, that I am not the only one that has found this occuring. I have seen others talking about it as well. In all cases I have seen, these ships/stations have had ZERO defense type enh. Also, I can not stress how much of a difference I am talking about. I am talking about siphons without enhs that are taking as much damage as defense enh ICC or UGTO dread.
Now. Sorry for the long reads. I would ask that any other players, ICC or Luth, that have run into these issues please post. I know that a great many ICC other then myself have run into at least one of these issues, so please come forward. The more details we can get out there, the better. Thanks!
[ This Message was edited by: Doran on 2012-09-22 11:27 ]
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Six Scars
Captain
Joined: November 28, 2006
Posts: 7
| Posted: 2012-09-22 11:01
I believe I can give some answers, since I was present on atleast 1 occassion of this happening. To the case of the fired missiles, the shooting players explained that they were targetting a spot behind the enemy, were it was possible to shoot the missiles to. They then simply hoped the missiles would collide with the enemy, rather then target them. You guys were not dodging, but duking it out, so that worked.
Secondly; the case of out-repairing the damage was 2 ICC dreads vs 2 Kluth stations. Kluth shps have a fairly high self-repair rate. Add to this the fact that it was a station (thus more self-repair) and that it was a Hive, being repaired by itself and another Hive, the numbers start to count up. Furthermore, atleast óne of the stations was rigged with full def enhancements (6x advanced, zlarrs and benchfords) giving it a lot of armor, to be able to duke it out.
-As for the station camping, I believe you have a valid point, but this works for all factions; and all factions use this already. Only difference is that Kluth can get in position easier.
[ This Message was edited by: Six Scars on 2012-09-22 11:02 ]
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-09-22 11:11
They can not only get in position easier, but they have the only ship able to take advantage of the spot that much. As for targeting... you can't target missles 150 behind someone have them hit with nearly 100% accuracy. They weren't just hitting us on their way, they were obviously targeted and were hitting us directly, not splash damage.
Also, it was myself and another ICC with damage enh AD shooting the station without the defense enh. I have never seen a station able to repair faster then two dreads blasting into it could do, even with multiple stations around repairing each other.
Hey!? Who changed my title to something more appropriate and acceptable!?
[ This Message was edited by: Whiterin on 2012-09-22 11:31 ]
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Null Pointer
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: April 10, 2010
Posts: 148
| Posted: 2012-09-22 11:34
[quote]
On 2012-09-22 10:39, Whiterin wrote:
Quote:
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- Station camping
Not so much of a glitch or bug, it's pretty unfair, and I don't think it was intended as a game mechanic. Part of a station's job is to shield smaller or damaged ships. Some Luth players have been using this to there advantage, however. There have been several times where luth players, sometimes several of them at once, spawn siphons and sit on "top" of ICC stations. This makes it impossible to hit them with anything but beams, and since a siphon is a beam heavy ship, it gives them free reign to fire on anyone while remaing in relative safety of the enemy's station. This shouldn't be possible to do and can cause major balance issues in game.
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In general all factions do that, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to fix it.
[ This Message was edited by: Cookie Monsta on 2012-09-22 11:45 ]
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-09-22 11:42
I brought it up now, because it's the issue I have seen. I have played ICC and UGTO, and spent a couple years on each, and have never personally seen it done by either faction. It seems to be a relatively common thing now, however, and the Siphon is really the only ship equipped to abuse the mechanics to that extreme.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2012-09-22 12:15
@missiles, k'luth missiles have a very low minimum range (200-210 gu), as part of a bigger plan(?) for luth missile ship concept. this is partly compensated for with an average maximum range (1400-1500 gu).
the new and more powerful missile tracking makes missiles use their turning much more efficiently, and combined with the vertical arcing of the missiles lets stations hit targets very close (human stations can hit dreads/stations at 500 gu, approximately the minimum range of Linear Drive Missile.
a point worth noting, all 3 kluth missile ships (stinger, ganglia, hive) have the same kind of missile launchers (tier 2). their damage scales according to ship class, but i dont know about maneuverability (probably stays the same).
so, hives can hit things even at the 200-250 gu range. youll have to get within the 190 gu range.
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Havick86*
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 01, 2007
Posts: 14
From: havick86*
| Posted: 2012-09-22 12:16
Siphon siphon for once he tried to sit atop my dreadful line...
He Soon discovered just how to whine.. for once he sat he soon went splat
From ions to lasers to infantry, he soon found out and don't sit on me
[ This Message was edited by: Havick86* on 2012-09-22 12:18 ]
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2012-09-22 12:20
Please note that it might seem unfair for siphons to do that, but also you can do a short jump away and they are basically dead unless they have a fair amoutn of def upgrades cause kluth ships are very squishy. As for missles, every faction has its own kind, the icc gets high damage missles and longe range, (not sure about UGTO) and then kluth gets short range missles that are harder to detect but not massivly high damage. And for the missletargeting at 200ish gu, yeah kluth can use shrouds at like 250 gu i believe, but all missles circle around just like a fighter does just a smaller circle for another hit.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-09-22 13:18
ICC and UGTO have the same missiles.
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2012-09-22 13:49
After last night, I expected a thread like this to be posted. 
The thing is, UGTO can tank MUCH more damage using the ways youve described, but i agree luth arent supposed to tank much.
Also our shrouds hurt, but your harpex has the same tracking capabilities(do they?) and i promise you, harpex hurts us much MUCH more than shrouds do.
2-3 harpex hits and our dreads are near death. If they've been wep enhanced, then we're already dead.
But as far as shrouds hitting at 250 gu, Ive never heard of this or paid attention in battle well enough to see it so this is new to me. I would assume harpex can do the same(but isnt their min range 500gu?) but like i said i havent paid attention in a close range battle enough to notice the behavior of missles.
As far as siphon tanking:
Last night I flew a siphon most of the battle. There was one instance where I'll admit that the siphon performed well above what it should be. I was able to sit there for an unreasonable amount of time and hammer a stat with rupters but this was because I have entirely ELF torps equipped and no one was really attacking me lol... yes ELF works if done right and yes ELF torps make a huge difference.
I'm kind of dissappointed that we are reverting to Uggie style stat spam lately, but let me tell ya, after chit was introduced, our hives are now actually usefull in a combat/fleet support setting. Kluth stats have sucked for a long time now.
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-09-22 14:18
This is actually stuff that's been happening over the last week or so, actually haven't noticed it in the larger scale battles that sometimes happen.
As far as Harpex go, yes, they do they most damage. They also have massive signatures and can be spotted from the other side of the universe. They are slow, and don't manuver well at all, unlike shroud missles. They are much easier to PD and avoid.
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2012-09-22 14:31
Harpex min gu is 500, and max is like 2100 i think dont quote me on it
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-09-22 15:58
Yes there is ways to shoot within minimum Range with the ganglia. You can however, use this technique also with the MD.  Not sure its an exploit, but maybe should be fixed in a future patch as minimum range was put in for a reason? just an idea.
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-DBS
Marshal
Joined: January 04, 2011
Posts: 204
From: St. Petersburg, FL
| Posted: 2012-09-22 16:47
Guess ill get out my Siphon and sit ontop of ICC stats for now on...
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Hyperforce
Grand Admiral
K'Luth Revolution
Joined: January 25, 2009
Posts: 43
From: Perth, WA
| Posted: 2012-09-22 21:00
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On 2012-09-22 16:47, -DBS wrote:
Guess ill get out my Siphon and sit ontop of ICC stats for now on...
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well said.
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