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ICC AD over powered |
RonZo *FC*
Chief Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: March 17, 2004
Posts: 178
|  Posted: 2013-01-27 21:48
Hi!
I ve come back for a long recess and found tha a AD with zlars, benchford, and adv power defense is ridiculous. My SS have 18% of extra damage and also good defense, gave this guy like 30 alphas with beams and QST and was like shooting to a station with a scout.
Shield or either consume more energy or lower the defense rate.
Thanks so much, hope u can do something about it.
RonZo
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Chief Marshal RonZo
[CEC] Fleet Commander
Since 2004
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*Flash*
Chief Marshal
Joined: April 19, 2009
Posts: 291
From: Semi retired after 1.67 !
| Posted: 2013-01-28 03:35
In devs opinion AD is how it supposed to be but in my opinion as a player is that ugto armor got nerfed to much and if u look to some old dev logs u will see how many times got nerfed.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2013-01-28 06:55
A UGTO SS vs an ICC AD ... I would think the AD would win every time - your only real damage output are your missile launchers and HCL's are a terrible terrible energy drain + they only do 20% of their damage at maximum range. I think if the AD pilot was capable he could easily take out the SS just from playing the range, since his non-beam weapons make up most of his damage.
Furthermore, theirs already been a discussion on this some time ago and it was (heavily) noted that their hasn't been a major change in weapons or shields for a few patch revisions. And their more then likely won't be until the Ship Tier system is done.
With that being said, I'm open to the idea of people showing, with math and reason and testing that their is a balance issue, not just "I shoot the enemy 30 times and he no die plz nerf". But please be aware that it is impossible to obtain perfect balance, and indeed it is sometimes better to have an imperfect balance
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2013-01-28 09:22
It is an assault dread's role to destroy stations and other dreads.
1 mandible can take an SS solo.
1 EAD can take an SS solo.
Why should an AD not be allowed to take your SS solo?
It's meant to destroy your stat.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2013-01-28 09:31
Woo another one of these threads. If you wanna kill an AD up close, use an EAD or a Battle station. The support station isn't the tank it used to be. 
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-01-28 10:35
SS were never meant to solo Dreadnoughts up close, ICC SS has never been able to do it and Hive has never been able to do it. UGTO SS may not be able to kill stuff up close anymore, but it can live forever with the broken armor repair rates from repair plat stacking. You're complaining about what exactly?
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Null Pointer
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: April 10, 2010
Posts: 148
| Posted: 2013-01-28 11:50
Quote:
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On 2013-01-28 03:35, Flash. wrote:
In devs opinion AD is how it supposed to be but in my opinion as a player is that ugto armor got nerfed to much and if u look to some old dev logs u will see how many times got nerfed.
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- HOTFIX: All UGTO weapons have had a 10% damage increase.
- HOTFIX: All ICC weapons have had a 10% damage reduction.
- HOTFIX: UGTO Standard and Ablative armor increased by 20%; Reflective increased by 25%.
Later on in the dev log...
UGTO Changes:
* Standard Armor: 5% hp reduction.
* Ablative Armor: 7.5% hp reduction.
As you can see.. you're still waaay more powerfull than you were before the 20% increase. You have 15% stronger standard armor, and 17.5% stronger reflective armor...
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2013-01-28 12:09
Quote:
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On 2013-01-28 11:50, Boolean Argument wrote:
- HOTFIX: All UGTO weapons have had a 10% damage increase.
- HOTFIX: All ICC weapons have had a 10% damage reduction.
- HOTFIX: UGTO Standard and Ablative armor increased by 20%; Reflective increased by 25%.
Later on in the dev log...
UGTO Changes:
* Standard Armor: 5% hp reduction.
* Ablative Armor: 7.5% hp reduction.
As you can see.. you're still waaay more powerfull than you were before the 20% increase. You have 15% stronger standard armor, and 17.5% stronger reflective armor...
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Nitpick:
Standard Armor: 1 * 1.2 * .95 = 1.14
Ablative Armor: 1 * 1.25 * .925 ~= 1.15
Anyway, those changes are superseded by the 1.680 release where Shields and Armor were re-balanced - which was really just a buff to non-standard shields/armor and some regen tweaking. Weapons have not been overhauled in a while but they are next on the list. The plan is to re-balance everything (even armor/shields which will be looked at again) when the new ship tier system is finalized. At least, from what I remember.
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2013-01-28 14:42
That's what gives them the best defense: fast regen + ability to rotate
Before, they had defense mode, which would use an extreme amount of energy and regen shields very quickly.
Now they don't have defense mode, they have +400% out of combat regen to compensate.
And even then it isn't near as fast as it was with defense mode(correct me if I'm wrong?)
This also amplifies the fact that icc ships are more effective the longer the battle goes on; the more time passes the more their shields regen.
Kluth = very short combat
Icc= very long combat
Ugto= somewhere in between
I think poke hit a point: AD is overused. But then, all factions have something they overuse, which the new tier system will hopefully fix.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2013-01-28 18:21
AD is basically the best all around dread. It is good at close range, and medium range because of the power of sabots, and can take a pounding. It does the least amount of damage of all the super dreads, but it makes up for this with the defence. I can easily see the AD being spammed just like the EAD's of old, and the best counter is either go smaller, or gank/hit and run.
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White-Knight
Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: January 12, 2013
Posts: 12
| Posted: 2013-01-28 18:31
Fattierob, you have access to source code while the rest of the playerbase do not enjoy this priviledge, they cannot provide you with mathematical reasoning when they do not have access to that information. Without access to the damage output of every weapon and (armor / shield / hull) numbers mounted on an Assault Dreadnought model and on a Support Station model they can not provide you with that information.
As for speculative reasoning:
Common sense and our environment teach us that a Station should be more resilient than a dreadnought. Take a (scale) model of an Assault Dreadnought and a model of a station to an individual of the public and you will find that 9/10 individuals will assume the station to be the most prestigious or majestic.
What individuals expect is important:
When you open a paint editor or a word processor you expect all commonly used software shortcuts such as (CTRL + P for print) to function as expected. Consistency sells in a software environment, and individuals in any software environment are confused when they come across a feature which is not consistent with what they expect.
A station is larger and carries a certain image to the average player who joins darkspace. A smaller ship destroying a larger station with ease is against standard expected convention, and that is a logically sound reason for the following argument.
It is not the Assault Dreadnought that appears to be overpowered in the users mind, it's the fact that a smaller ship destroys a larger and more majestic Station with ease.
Simply for the reason that it goes against expected convention, individuals will tell you it is wrong. From frigate to dreadnought, as the size of a vessel increases so does it's power. You break this convention with a station. Individuals complain less and enjoy more when certain expected conventions such as ship size are met, that is the reason this is a logical argument.
[ This Message was edited by: White-Knight on 2013-01-28 19:07 ]
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Mersenne Twister
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 11, 2003
Posts: 1161
From: Sector C Test Labs and Contol Facilities
| Posted: 2013-01-28 20:40
Quote:
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On 2013-01-28 18:31, White-Knight wrote: Without access to the damage output of every weapon and (armor / shield / hull) numbers mounted on an Assault Dreadnought model and on a Support Station model they can not provide you with that information.
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http://www.darkspace.net/wiki/index.php/Talk:DarkSpace_Database
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I wouldn't screw with it if I were you. The doctor already holds you in poor favor. Messing with this might really fry his shorts.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2013-01-28 20:43
Quote:
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On 2013-01-28 18:31, White-Knight wrote:
Common sense and our environment teach us that a Station should be more resilient than a dreadnought. Take a (scale) model of an Assault Dreadnought and a model of a station to an individual of the public and you will find that 9/10 individuals will assume the station to be the most prestigious or majestic.
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That depends on alot of things, one could see and woudl probably do see abattle stationb etter then a dread both armor and weapon wise
But some could See A support station, who is built to supply ship a much weaker form of station thereform an easy target for a full fledge assault dread
After al Support statiosn aren't meant to be on the front lines. It really depends on the Specialisation
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2013-01-28 20:49
I would like to point out that RonZo never said he went one vs one with an AD like you all speculate, I saw what happened, it was one AD vs an SS, Carrier Dread and two battle cruisers..
Why are the players who dont even play this game anymore saying what they believe to be right when infact they really dont have a clue about the current state other then what they have read in the forums. @Talien, Brutality, Zero28 and XTC, come play UGTO for a "back from retirement" fun week, then come back to the forums and say how you feel ICC is then, maybe you could even teach us RSM how to pilot UGTO ships Talien lol.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-01-28 20:52
The tier system is coming anyway. Layouts will be changed.
Stations are gonna be more vulnerable without support. Offense and defense values will be tweaked.
All these QQ threads... good for laughs and trolling. But ultimately futile and possibly irrelevant.
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