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How do you use Fighters and Missiles? (effectively) |
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
|  Posted: 2011-11-25 00:08
-Fighters end up hitting more friendly targets than enemy targets.
-Fighters just nitpick, and hardly shoot at all if the target chases after them.
-Fighters have good range, but it takes a decade for them to reach a target, and then if it briefly vanishes from sensors, they abort the whole mission.
-Scout shuttles don't act as a unit with any visibility.
-Missiles can swing around if they miss and hit and kill friendly targets.
-Missiles are very limited in ammo, and easily PD'd
-If a friendly target is attacking so they aren't likely to PD, your missiles splash damage ends up hurting them.
-Both missiles and fighters are rendered useless if the enemy just point jumps right on top of you.
I don't know... every time I've tried to find a good scenario to use them in, It never ends well. About an hour of using a carrier or missile ship resulted in about +5 prestige and a lot of friendly fire, despite my best efforts to shift+space shots that were about to hit a friendly. Just the splash damage alone killed a nearby frigate.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-11-25 00:22
Just goes to show that DS fighters are only effective or useful in fanfics....
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2011-11-25 00:27
maybe if fighters were more about precision strikes, not whittling away at the enemy.
If they flew to their target, launched their payload of high-yield torpedoes, then flew back.
There's a lack of vital control over fighters, I'm guessing you need to work some magic with the Ctrl key to really get them to work properly.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2011-11-25 01:04
Quote:
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On 2011-11-25 00:27, Fluttershy wrote:
maybe if fighters were more about precision strikes, not whittling away at the enemy.
If they flew to their target, launched their payload of high-yield torpedoes, then flew back.
There's a lack of vital control over fighters, I'm guessing you need to work some magic with the Ctrl key to really get them to work properly.
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important trick to learn with the MD is the blind fire trick. You can hit stuff even inside minimum range, just gotta watch out for splash if the enemy gets to close 
[ This Message was edited by: Brutality on 2011-11-25 01:49 ]
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Blackjack [DBL]
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 344
From: The land of venomous reptiles.
| Posted: 2011-11-25 06:01
The fighters used to be even stupider than they already are. They used to just keep flying until 0 range and would than get killed by pd.
There also was only 5 in a hanger but no fighter cap so if there was a depot and several carriers you could end up with an insane amount of fighters flying around.
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Demigan
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 88
| Posted: 2011-11-25 06:31
It seems to me that fighters would need to be more AI steered. If the target vanishes, they should loiter in the area for a few minutes before returning to the ship. Should the target appear in that time, they will re-engage. If a different target be designated in that time, the fighters will go to that target without returning to the motherhsip.
This would allow easier assaults with fighters, you can create a point in space with ctrl, launch the maximum on fighters and then send them on a target. Luthies won't be able to avoid all fighters by simply stealthing for a second. These ships won't be overpowered this way, one friend is all you need to PD all those fighters, and with the usage of AI you can send frigates to hunt them down.
As for missiles, they are good enough as it is. It's hard to use, but with correct usage of allies and AI, you can deal @*~?&%^&loads of damage. Yes, the PD is annoying, yes, one ship only has to fly in front of the enemy and accidentally get hit by all missiles, but that is a price to pay for the heavy damage you can cash out.
what's more, I often use missile ships to deplete the energy banks of UTGO and luth. When lots of players are around, using missile frigates to quickly fire loads of missiles forces their PD to suck energy, if they don't use PD, I come back with a bigger missile ship to cash out the big damage.
Both the carrier and the missile ship are support ships, just like a supply ship they are sitting ducks in close quarters, they just have a great long range attack.
Yours sincerely,
Demigan.
[ This Message was edited by: Demigan on 2011-11-25 08:35 ]
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2011-11-25 07:01
Fighters and missiles work much better if you stack up ECM, a Command Carrier cant get a negative signature any more, even with a stealth module, generators and shields off.
So team work is needed.
Try to find someone to fly with you, stacking ECM, maybe a second CC.
Generaly fighters dont do much damage compared to missiles (if they hit).
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-11-25 07:28
Already planned to re-do Fighter AI.
Missiles are just fine.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-11-25 07:50
Missiles are fine, they just require the proper situations to use them. They tend to come in two varieties.
Mass spam enough of them that enemy PD can't hold up to it, or use ECM to make sure the enemy ship can't see the missiles to PD them.
Once missiles start getting through, they do quite a bit of damage. Even a few hits outweighs the ones that don't. If you can combine the two above you can very quickly destroy targets.
Its just that people choose not to use teamwork that it doesn't happen more often. And to be honest, its alot more difficult to pull off than say, spamming a ton of stations at something.
Fighters are pretty retarded though, simply because its easy to make them just go away by lowering your signature.
-Ent
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Demigan
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 88
| Posted: 2011-11-25 08:40
Quote:
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On 2011-11-25 07:50, Enterprise wrote:
Its just that people choose not to use teamwork that it doesn't happen more often. And to be honest, its alot more difficult to pull off than say, spamming a ton of stations at something.
-Ent
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I do choose to use teamwork with other people, in fact, most time when more then 4 ICC people are around you can find me supporting them with engineers, supply ship or whatever they ASK me to take.
The problem here is that for teamwork you need a TEAM, and with a max of usually 3 people online, it's hard to work as a team. It's easier to just take a combat ship, order the AI around with the current commands and hope the best of it until more people come online.
Oh, and sorry Pantheon, I hadn't realised I had been swearing. My apologies.
Yours sincerely,
Demigan.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2011-11-25 11:02
missles are more effective when shooting at a moving target if the target is moving directly towards or away from you. I don't fire them at a target that is moving lateral to me, because they have about a 5% chance of hitting. When the target is moving towards you, they only work within a certain range as well. If the target gets too close, then the missles will miss and circle around behind the enemy ship. Truly the best case seems to be when a target is turning and moving directly away from you.
I know that two or more ganglias can spam out and kill a sitting dread within 3 volleys, too. Otherwise, with ecm, dreads can pd them down. However, this is effective if you are trying to make them expend energy. Uses: Spam several rounds at enemy dread, allowing it to pd them, but using up some energy. Then, after a few volleys, uncloak a siphon or mandy next to them and fire away. EADs especially dont have a high energy reserve, and this is a great way to siphon (no pun intended) off some of their offensive energy.
Fighters are a different story. If you want to use bomber fighters, the best way I have seen, especially for Kluth, is to park a ship next to the planet, or nearby if it has a scanner, and then volley from longest range. This can hit a planet pretty hard. I haven't seen anyone using this tactic in a long while tho. Also, it helps to have a ship near the incoming vector that has ecm running, as it can cover the fighter signature and avoid them being PD'd by nearby enemy ships.
For fighters, best I can offer is don't fire them with friendlies in between. They seem to avoid ff pretty good except on the initial volley. They don't run out of ammo, so they will stay on target until it dies, they are dead, or the target jumps away. They can tear up a ship pretty nice.
Interceptors I really don't see a point in, but I see others use them. Can't give you any advice for them. I personally wish they would simply run a patrol around the mother ship and pd incoming warheads aor engage incoming enemy fighters. But that is only a wish.
Hope this helps.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2011-11-25 11:21
Exhibit A: Doing it right
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2011-11-25 11:39
Fighter Field test in beta a long long time ago.. think it was with the 'new' Agincourts.. We crashed Beta..
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2011-11-25 11:50
One thing I was trying, since harpex like to miss their mark (especially on smaller targets), I'll use shift+space just as they reach the target so they all detonate on top of them.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2011-11-25 12:00 ]
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2011-11-25 14:38
Quote:
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On 2011-11-25 11:50, Fluttershy wrote:
One thing I was trying, since harpex like to miss their mark (especially on smaller targets), I'll use shift+space just as they reach the target so they all detonate on top of them.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2011-11-25 12:00 ]
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that used to be pretty effective at least with the old SS. Haven't tried it with the new one yet, but harpex have even more splash it seems so more damage 
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