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New Beacon? |
DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
|  Posted: 2010-09-29 22:39
Facts:
- In the mean time, it's used to reveal Luth cloak by raising the ship hence prolong the recover time. There comes a situation when a small human scout can disable a KLuth station by firing non-stop beacons until the target's signature is over 90. This is silly.
- The only ship has beacon is the scout. However, beacon maximum range is about 300gu and can be destroyed by PD on the ship so whoever do beaconing takes risk. As a result, the one who do beaconing usually an admiral or higher who get rid of the current ship to spawn scout and get less prestige than the others cause there is not always group as the time is short. Not so fair.
- Beacon was supposed to sign the primary ship to attack. But I swear red ring is hard to detect in 1.542 when it's too blurry.
So:
- Beacon is not useful to equip KLuth ship. And beacon is meaningless when fire on human ship.
- Somebody must change ship during combat and get risks than the other.
Suggestion:
- The beacon is no longer a missile, it should be a torpedo. Which mean, it has medium range, can't be destroyed but slow enough to avoid.
- Instead of razing the target's signature, the beacon torpedo will cover the target with phosphorous acid, making it sparkling by phosphorescence. Basically, it doesn't affect cloak but still reveal where the ship is. The hunter must Ctrl+click.
Benefit:
- Since it's a torpedo, any assault class should have one. Therefore no needs to change the ship and no needs to ask "Who's the primary?". The green brightest ship is the one.
- Beacon is now useful for Kluth and it's good to apply on human ship. There are various assualt ships so anyone can beacon and attack.
- The beaconed one now has a higher chance to survive cause hunters must ctrl + click then most of the time they will miss. And since signature is not affected so the cooldown won't change.
Shall anyone be in assualt class?
I don't think so. The risk is still there. The one who's getting close shall die first.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-09-29 23:28
Huh?
You want the beacon to splatter us with Yautja/Predator blood?
That's just weird.
If you look at it technically, a beacon should not raise the sig and cause a longer cloaking time...
BUT... what should happen is that, the beacon becomes targetable, and everyone will be able to target the beacon (and by proxy, you) within a given range, and be able to shoot at it.
Or... it should appear on the F2 map of your faction (because it is a "friendly" transponder) while it is still active, and a Kluth will never be able to escape even by jumping.
Now this is just plain nasty for Kluth....
But it works this way for the Kluth too. Stick a beacon onto an EAD, and he can be easily tracked no matter where he e-jumps at 10% hull.....
Now...  ... this will also be nasty for human factions.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2010-09-30 02:35 ]
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-09-30 02:32
Quote:
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On 2010-09-29 22:39, chlorophyll wrote:
- The only ship has beacon is the scout. However, beacon maximum range is about 300gu and can be destroyed by PD on the ship so whoever do beaconing takes risk
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afaik some dessies also have beacons
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*Flash*
Chief Marshal
Joined: April 19, 2009
Posts: 291
From: Semi retired after 1.67 !
| Posted: 2010-09-30 05:39
we dont need new becoans coz there are no kluth in sag. Most of them stopped playing so we are good
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-09-30 09:58
Beacons were taken off Escort/Picket Destroyers with the layout changes, they are Scout only now.
.....The "coating torpedo" reminds me of this:
13:29:31 *OmniVore*: "we need pait mines for dreads kluth cloaks runs into a pait mine get covered for a few secs in a radioactive pait that lets players target the kluth "
13:29:47 *OmniVore*: "paint*"
13:30:50 *OmniVore*: "radioactive paint like nucular waste or something"
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2010-09-30 10:41
- Since it's a torpedo, any assault class should have one.
I don't have the thread handy, but I'm kinda sympathetic to Azreal's points in what I think was a discussion about ECM platforms and the fact that humans have a half dozen ways to detect K'Luth and yet the K'Luth have no ways to better hide from humans. Giving a beacon to every ship seems like a pretty drastic change in the balance of power.
- Beacon is now useful for Kluth and it's good to apply on human ship. There are various assualt ships so anyone can beacon and attack.
What exactly is the benefit for K'Luth? Easier target calling? I don't think that is a commensurate gain for them compared to being seen even while cloaked. Granted, it probably makes it more useful than the current beacon, but hardly a huge boon to them.
- The beaconed one now has a higher chance to survive cause hunters must ctrl + click then most of the time they will miss.
I don't think this is categorically true; there are plenty of people who can attack quite effectively even with manual aiming.. especially vs bigger ships, as its much harder for them to change their vector or speed, meaning many shots would in fact hit. Whether it is more or less total than a beaconed ship isn't clear, so I don't think you can state it so matter of factly.
Plus, I'm not entirely sure how the effect would be applied; it might require some new graphics logic, which of course takes more time and effort. And you know how much we hate working..
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2010-09-30 10:54
I must add that there's a maximum limit to the number of beacons that can be attached to a ship; namely, three.
Also, assuming that said k'luth station is paying attention to the scout, I'm not entirely sure how it can manage to cover it in beacons due to the effective range of beacons being about the same distance as the station's array of giga-death beams can reach.
Personally, I'm all for the old revealing-position-certain-death-beacons, even if they only last a short period of time and/or can get shot off by weapons fire.
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-09-30 11:06
Quote:
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BUT... what should happen is that, the beacon becomes targetable, and everyone will be able to target the beacon (and by proxy, you) within a given range, and be able to shoot at it.
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Actually, it would be even better if you have only the beacon that you can target and the cloaked K'luth vessel remain cloaked (no center hull target box of the cloaked vessel).
If the beacon could get destroyed upon taking damage when attached to the hull (or after certain amount of damage) this could result in an interesting game play.
With the beacon being attached to the outside of the hull, your not shooting at the center of the ship it is attached to, what you would normally be doing would it is visible and target able.
The chance of hitting the beacon greatly depending on where the beacon is attached on to the hull of the enemy ship and from what angle the fire is coming fired at the beacon as well as ship movement.
Shooting accurate beam weapons at the beacon might not be very wise for they have a much higher chance hitting and destroying it would their be no enemy hull blocking the fire.
With the beacon having a limited live time of its own, it might get terminated sooner due to weapon fire shot at it.
So it might be good for one volley and with some skill, luck and guess work weapons fire could be time right to hit the hull only and not the beacon extending its use.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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Marius Falix
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 05, 2010
Posts: 268
From: Luyten
| Posted: 2010-09-30 11:23
use PD
im aware missiles can get in the way.
im also aware u should change targets to the biggest possible ship. even if thats a recon.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2010-09-30 14:08
Quote:
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On 2010-09-30 11:06, Wild Cat wrote:
Actually, it would be even better if you have only the beacon that you can target and the cloaked K'luth vessel remain cloaked (no center hull target box of the cloaked vessel).
If the beacon could get destroyed upon taking damage when attached to the hull (or after certain amount of damage) this could result in an interesting game play.
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but at some point it did actually work like that, if memory serves...
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Fatal Command (CO)
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1159
From: Back in Texas and noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2010-09-30 14:17
Beacons did in fact USED to be targettable.No idea why that changed.beacons were and are the most effective when they worked that way.tracking ICC/UGTO after e jump no problem...tracking kluth....no such thing unless the kluth in question is an idiot.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-09-30 18:17
Quote:
| On 2010-09-30 10:41, Shigernafy wrote:
Giving a beacon to every ship seems like a pretty drastic change in the balance of power. |
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I said should only ASSAULT class has one. But I've made up my mind, maybe COMMAND dread should have, to make it necessary in combat.
Quote:
| On 2010-09-30 10:41, Shigernafy wrote:
Granted, it probably makes it more useful than the current beacon, but hardly a huge boon to them. |
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At least something better for all factions is more acceptable than a new developmet change that may lead to a QQ storm that occur many times on DS.
Quote:
| On 2010-09-30 10:41, Shigernafy wrote:
I don't think this is categorically true; there are plenty of people who can attack quite effectively even with manual aiming.. especially vs bigger ships, as its much harder for them to change their vector or speed, meaning many shots would in fact hit. Whether it is more or less total than a beaconed ship isn't clear, so I don't think you can state it so matter of factly. |
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You underestimate the latency. Select and spacebar always has more accuracy than ctrl click, easily seen on beams.
Since new beacon = torpedo - cant shot off but slow enough to avoid, is it a good reason to get cruiser and smaller?
Quote:
| On 2010-09-30 10:54, Gejaheline wrote:
Also, assuming that said k'luth station is paying attention to the scout, I'm not entirely sure how it can manage to cover it in beacons due to the effective range of beacons being about the same distance as the station's array of giga-death beams can reach. |
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That's why I suggest this topic.
Quote:
| On 2010-09-30 10:41, Shigernafy wrote:
Plus, I'm not entirely sure how the effect would be applied; it might require some new graphics logic, which of course takes more time and effort. And you know how much we hate working.. |
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I sympathetic and concur that this light suggestion requires heavy efford. Just a hint adding to development list when the staff has spare time and energy.
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Marius Falix
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 05, 2010
Posts: 268
From: Luyten
| Posted: 2010-09-30 18:45
not a fan. we have 2 ways of countering luth, beacons and ECCM.
u guys all have cloak, we dont all have decent counter measures.
i like the idea of a better counter measure for Assaults, however the sig build up is helps tracking too and slows down luth. which is dearly needed in alot of casses.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-10-02 00:45
How about we make beacons work in a realistic, sensible, not totally out of this world way.
Beacons do not screw with signiture. instead, when the beacon hits the target is does not disappear from your HuD. it instead stays up as a little target on the enemy that can be shot off.
Beacons can be seen from maybe, up to 10K away? enough to determine jump direction easily, for example.
Beacons would be able to be shot off. so noobs cant just target the beacon and blast away, because it will blow up the beacon.
Effect would be usefull for both sides.
just my 2 cents.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-10-02 01:10
Quote:
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On 2010-10-02 00:45, lulzypulzy*STEAK!!* wrote:
How about we make beacons work in a realistic, sensible, not totally out of this world way.
Beacons do not screw with signiture. instead, when the beacon hits the target is does not disappear from your HuD. it instead stays up as a little target on the enemy that can be shot off.
Beacons can be seen from maybe, up to 10K away? enough to determine jump direction easily, for example.
Beacons would be able to be shot off. so noobs cant just target the beacon and blast away, because it will blow up the beacon.
Effect would be usefull for both sides.
just my 2 cents.
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Yup those are the ideas basically.
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