| Author |
A new idea on balance |
Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
|  Posted: 2010-07-30 17:08
A) just want to point out that technically the factions dont quite fit the standard formula
ICC's defenses suggest they are the tanking faction, yet they have superior speed and turning rate compared to UGTO... so kinda odd.
but anyways
B)
I think we are missing one dimension of how we can balance factions, and its an important one. balance has traditionally tried to even out scout versus scout, frigate versus frigate, etc. but this doesnt really work, because all 3 factions have different and very unique game mechanics to them. K'luth cloak, ICC shields, UGTOs historic tendency to be about destroying subsystems (the vets will remember this... oh god the flux).
So, heres the idea.
1. pair off ship classes. scout and frigate, then destroyer and cruiser, then dread and station. each represents light, medium, and heavy.
2. consolidate ship roles into 3 groups: combat, electronic warfare, and support (engineering, supply, bombing).
3. assign the roles to each ship class according to how the faction is intended to play.
so, for instance:
Kluth: light + destroyers = combat, medium = support, heavy = electronic warfare.
the kluth want to be able to move fast. that means hitting quickly with the most manoeuverable ships, with support being able to generally keep up. when it comes to electronic warfare, kluth want to create spaces that are safe for them to cloak in, e.g. lots of ECM, and a long line of sight from scanners. Thus their dreads and stations are best suited to wielding large amounts of ECM and scanners.
ICC: light = EW, medium = combat, heavy = support.
ICC want to quickly identify and tag enemy targets. but they dont want to be heavily dedicated to combat because they want to maintain range. large ships are too big to do that so the focus is on destroyers and cruiers, with the occasional dreadnaught providing very long distance fire support but otherwise relegated to being the bomber, engineer, or support vessel of the fleet.
UGTO: light = EW, medium = support, heavy = combat.
UGTO also need to quickly tag targets (this overlap between UGTO and ICC is mainly because both are fighting kluth). the difference is that UGTO tend to want to tank because of their poor turn rate. this means their stations and dreads form the bulk of the fleet, with medium vessels providing bombing, engineering, and supply.
how does this balance out?
Kluth: the smallest ships are the weakest defended, but because they are kluth have the firepower to compensate. their speed allows them very fast entry and exit from combat zones. against UGTO, a fight of 4 kluth destroyers and 4 stations will even out because the stations are simply so immense and slow that they cannot hope to bring to bear all their firepower against the kluth, not to mention their ability to evade fire. thus in reality a fight of 4 kluth destroyers versus 4 UGTO stations boils down to a fight between 4 dessies and 1 station at a time
against ICC they are able to outmanoeuver ICC cruisers but are somewhat vulnerable to their destroyers. between kluth and UGTO its a matched fight: getting close to hit means being fired upon by the immense power of a station or dread, but kluth can potentially dodge some of this.
ICC: ICC are able to keep up with some of the kluth, while also having a fair chance of manoveuring around UGTO stations. shields are inherently well adapted to long range fights which the ICC tend towards, but in close combat, being hit from multiple angles, shield rotation becomes moot.
ICC are well adapted against kluth destroyers and UGTO stations, but weak against UGTO dreads and Kluth frigates.
C)
as an aside crazy idea, itd be really cool if one faction had nothing but engineers as their combat. the idea being they build platforms around themselves to function as armour, weapons, supply, bombing, etc., and are effectivelly entirely stationary except for the few platforms they can jump with using tractor beams.
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
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Vice Admiral Josh Knight
Vice Admiral
Joined: July 25, 2010
Posts: 56
| Posted: 2010-07-30 17:43
All sounds great accept the engineering faction. I wouldn't want to play a completely stationary race, but heh thats just me.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-07-30 18:47
well it was an idea =P i thought itd be neat for them to have to progressively build themselves in the midst of combat or defense. and the longer u left them the stronger they were (with a max of course), and also the customizability of constructing these plats at different angles etc.
but newho... input on the rest is what im looking for =)
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-07-30 18:58
Quote:
| On 2010-07-30 17:08, N'kra The Wolf wrote:
A) just want to point out that technically the factions dont quite fit the standard formula
ICC's defenses suggest they are the tanking faction, |
|
You already go wrong there.
Stop comparing darkspace to other games/game-plays.
ICC has Defense in mind.
ICC can re-direct shield power to once facing giving that one arc the ability to outlast 4x the other faction, not even counting the 4 arc regeneration.
ICC focus to attack at range, there cannons have no fall of (aka there weapons do max damage at close and max range) and they have dedicated missile ships allowing them to put more missiles in the field for long range engagements.
Attacking a enemy at long range allows the ICC to put the maximum weapons to that enemy and having the enemy in one direction allows them to re-direct shield power to stay alive longer.
Am i missing something?
p.s. suggestions belong in Beta, thanks.
[ This Message was edited by: Eledore Massis [R33] on 2010-07-30 18:58 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-07-30 20:39
i disagree with putting all kluth combat in light, icc in medium, ect
how will we engy with medium and heavy ships if we cant spawn them from gate? Kluth use light ships, so its frigs vs stations/dessies
So if this idea was to be considered, we still need a few "cross weight/class ships"
like a medium/heavy kluth combat ship, for all factions a light engi, ugto a combat medium/light, ect
so instead of putting all combat in a weight class, we could focus combat in a weight class, but have exceptions
i also agree ICC arent supposed to "tank" they try to outlast with rotating shields and long range weapons
UGTO cant cause much systems damage now, flux does nothing
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Shath
Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: July 17, 2007
Posts: 219
From: Portland, OR
| Posted: 2010-07-30 23:47
hmmm as long as kluth can dodge melee fire im for it....cus im srry but if we cant dodge beams etc from a station theres no way in hell im gona fly a destroyer within 100gu of a station because thats a death sentence if i cant dodge
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-07-30 23:55
@ space: youre presuming everything else would stay the same. honestly, in this setup, id consider putting newbies in stations in UGTO, in cruisers on ICC and in dessies on kluth.
id also expect spawn requirements to change dramatically.
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-07-31 20:10
anyone here play 40K?
we can compare the races quite easily.
ICC resemble the Tau - long range, bad close up, awesome defence.
UGTO are like the marines - Jack of all trades all round tough nuts.
K'luth are like the eldar - Highly specialised ships, and sneak-attack capability.
anyone see what im getting at?
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-07-31 23:20
Quote:
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On 2010-07-31 20:10, Lulzypulzy wrote:
anyone here play 40K?
we can compare the races quite easily.
ICC resemble the Tau - long range, bad close up, awesome defence.
UGTO are like the marines - Jack of all trades all round tough nuts.
K'luth are like the eldar - Highly specialised ships, and sneak-attack capability.
anyone see what im getting at?
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and I'm guessing the Admins would be Orges as they can summon up massive waves of MI 
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