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Petition for kluth representation |
Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
|  Posted: 2010-05-12 00:54
to my knowledge there no active and or current mods or devs that are kluth.
i feel that kluth should have some representation from someone who activly plays kluth and shares our general concerns. It can be anyone as long as its generally accepted by kluth. Im sure everyone on all 3 factions would agree we should have representation
[ This Message was edited by: Necrotic on 2010-05-12 00:55 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Necrotic on 2010-05-12 19:24 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-05-12 01:06
I think 3-4 active people from each faction should be choised as representive faction DEV. They would have no rights on any development issue but voice of their faction to avoid all those whinings. There should be a special forum for them and they should only inform devs about game experience. Secondly a mod for kluth would do alot of good for us. As many of devs and mods talk eachother and have knowledge of about anything going on in development , we ask to be shared with those infos since only a few devs are there willing to share information with kluth.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-12 01:23
Concur
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-05-12 02:25
So far as i can recall the Dev team for a long time always has consistent of UGTO players. This changed considerably since 1.5 with the addition of ICC players.
While i do not disagree that K'Luth isn't represented as much as the other factions. Should that matter to the development? I mean we got ICC dev's and you still shout NERF.
But i think the dev's are faction devided by the following.
UGTO: Doran, Jack, Drafell, Shig?
ICC: JIm, Eledore, Sensitivity,
K'Luth: $yTHe,
Unknown/: Josef, Nat, Fornax,
But please keep in mind that while we prefere these factions, doesn't mean we don't fly the others, or understand the other factions.
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Great Budda
Fleet Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: January 01, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Omaha, NE
| Posted: 2010-05-12 02:44
Quote:
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On 2010-05-12 02:25, Eledore Massis [R33] wrote:
So far as i can recall the Dev team for a long time always has consistent of UGTO players. This changed considerably since 1.5 with the addition of ICC players.
While i do not disagree that K'Luth isn't represented as much as the other factions. Should that matter to the development? I mean we got ICC dev's and you still shout NERF.
But i think the dev's are faction devided by the following.
UGTO: Doran, Jack, Drafell, Shig?
ICC: JIm, Eledore, Sensitivity,
K'Luth: $yTHe,
Unknown/: Josef, Nat, Fornax,
But please keep in mind that while we prefere these factions, doesn't mean we don't fly the others, or understand the other factions.
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Josef is the official spawn king that crashed Sag a week or two ago.... lol.
Jocularity asside I do think that equal representation is only a fair request if only as a mouthpiece to voice concerns at a development level interactions.
[ This Message was edited by: Great Budda on 2010-05-12 02:46 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-12 02:53
Quote:
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On 2010-05-12 02:25, Eledore Massis [R33] wrote:
So far as i can recall the Dev team for a long time always has consistent of UGTO players. This changed considerably since 1.5 with the addition of ICC players.
While i do not disagree that K'Luth isn't represented as much as the other factions. Should that matter to the development? I mean we got ICC dev's and you still shout NERF.
But i think the dev's are faction devided by the following.
UGTO: Doran, Jack, Drafell, Shig?
ICC: JIm, Eledore, Sensitivity,
K'Luth: $yTHe,
Unknown/: Josef, Nat, Fornax,
But please keep in mind that while we prefere these factions, doesn't mean we don't fly the others, or understand the other factions.
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List active players only pls.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2010-05-12 03:36
First of all, the dev team isn't some kind of parliament, and we're not Lebanon. And we do usually try to chat to players about changes to "their" faction, there just isn't a dedicated forum to it. Dev team members don't sit around in meetings and talk about what they want to do with "their" faction, but just a faction, based on what we think needs to change. While our operations may be a bit opaque, that doesn't mean we're conspiring against anyone. We also tend to talk about changes in the lobby, intentionally, so players can provide feedback (the downside being of course that the most active players tend to play and thus aren't in the lobby).
Likewise for mods -- while mods in game obviously have to choose a faction and thus could be considered factional, that only affects what chat they can see by default. Assuming the mods are halfway competent, they shouldn't be basing their decisions on what faction people are playing but rather their behavior.
That said, perspectives matter, and we don't have anyone who is widely considered an active K'Luth player. However, just being an active player doesn't qualify you for anything on its own.
We've had suggestions similar to this in the past and have occasionally tried to step up player consulting (Azreal, for example, helped Gideon for a while, I think, as well as a couple other players, as part of a factional assistance team), it tends to wane as people get distracted and timing gets difficult (meetings are hard to coordinate, etc). We can try to be more consultative, but I don't think we need more bureaucracy to development.
Also, I'm not UGTO. In terms of fleet membership, I was probably longest in a K'Luth clan, though that was years ago. Lately I've been playing more ICC than anything, but that was in large part to try to see how valid the QQ about nerfing was and try to see player opinions of their faction and compare to how they were playing. Over the (many) years I've probably about evened out on the factions -- but mostly I play whatever faction has the people I most want to play with: to me its a team game so I pick the team I most enjoy playing with at any given moment. The ships are secondary.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-05-12 03:39
Quote:
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On 2010-05-12 02:25, Eledore Massis [R33] wrote:
So far as i can recall the Dev team for a long time always has consistent of UGTO players. This changed considerably since 1.5 with the addition of ICC players.
While i do not disagree that K'Luth isn't represented as much as the other factions. Should that matter to the development? I mean we got ICC dev's and you still shout NERF.
But i think the dev's are faction devided by the following.
UGTO: Doran, Jack, Drafell, Shig?
ICC: JIm, Eledore, Sensitivity,
K'Luth: $yTHe,
Unknown/: Josef, Nat, Fornax,
But please keep in mind that while we prefere these factions, doesn't mean we don't fly the others, or understand the other factions.
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eledore mate, you are really reasonable person . Now I have a question and hope you dont mind to answer. Today in sag server , i was in my cruiser running 2 ecm .At 500 gu from remembrance I had 92 signal while there was only 3 enemy dreads (lot of SB and plats) . Consediring psi range is reduced to 660 gu and considering a beak takes 6 qst to die , how can we maintain/ hold newbies as kluth and what is the use of ganglia from now on.
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-05-12 04:12
Quote:
| On 2010-05-12 03:39, Pakhos wrote:
eledore mate, you are really reasonable person . Now I have a question and hope you dont mind to answer. Today in sag server , i was in my cruiser running 2 ecm .At 500 gu from remembrance I had 92 signal while there was only 3 enemy dreads (lot of SB and plats) . Consediring psi range is reduced to 660 gu and considering a beak takes 6 qst to die , how can we maintain/ hold newbies as kluth and what is the use of ganglia from now on. |
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First.
I am not a fan of the current Beta K'Luth range reduction.
I agree to some part what has been said in the other topic "Dev log 1" but i have not yet discussed this with the other developers so no further comment on that.
Second, Ganglia? indeed its a harrasing ship. maybe we should remove some cannons and give it more missiles..?
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2010-05-12 05:34
i think its reasonable to have a player rep from each faction chosen by each faction to beable to feedback directly to the devs and voice opinions and concerns by the players (each rep representing the players of that faction). it would only make sense to have player feedback from the people who have both played for years and play alot. This is not to help our selves get an advantage but some of us do want to help better the game itself and those of us who have been around for years could probably give some pretty good feedback.
also i know its not intentional by the devs but there is a percieved biased from the kluth becuse we dont see anyone represent our intersts. please dont think im bashing anyone for playing the faction they desire but its what perception of this. we used to have people like sythe,scotty,god soldier and at that time we knew our concerns were being voiced in some way becuse they played along side us. i dont want favoritism for anyone just a voice
[ This Message was edited by: Necrotic on 2010-05-12 05:35 ]
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No matter how hard they have tried. They havnt figured out how to nerf skill yet :P
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-05-12 07:22
I hope I dont ruffle feathers with this, but truth be known, there havent been very many K'Luth changes in the last two years where a member of the dev team did not approach me and ask my opinion beforehand. I am always open and completely honest with them, and I have even advocated for some of the "nerfs" we have recieved.
The goal is balance and competition.
They havent always listened to me, but they have always heard me out.
There is quite a bit that goes on behind the scenes, I think, that many of us do not see or realize. Having been staff before, I have a different sense of the staff actions than other players may.
Above all, people should realize that the most important changes always have the biggest advocate that each faction could possibly have: Faustus.
And omg if we did developement by a parliamentary proceedure, DS would be worse off than ever. Truth is MOST players are not objective enough, and MOST players should have NO SAY in how the game goes because of that lack of objectivity.
On a completely different note, yet refering back to the idea of representation, we do need some mods on the lobster side of the MV. Mods have been in game more - much appreciated- but I still never see them as Kluth. Just sayin'.....
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-05-12 08:15
I am a long time ICC player.
Does this mean my opinion about ICC is more important than, say, Stevey's opinion regarding ICC?
Does this mean I am adequately competent in determining how to properly balance the faction?
There are ICC players who believe repairs should affect shields.
I obviously disagree.
Whose opinion is more important? Picking any representative with conflicting views with the "majority" (read: "most noisy") of a given faction's playerbase will surely not still the dissent.
But on the other hand, is the "majority" necessarily right? Fifty Frenchmen can't be wrong is a logical fallacy, so you run into certain issues with whether someone's opinion is truly for the sake of balance, or just because they feel they are weak.
When I play UGTO, or K'Luth, I take issue with ICC's shields and find them competent. When I fly ICC I only hear that our weapons are incompetent.
Ipso facto, flying solely one faction does not a proper view of things give. I think people who faction hop all the time have a much better grasp of the different factional strengths and differences than those people who play solely on one faction, because when you're losing you usually tend to blame your tools, or the opponent's tools, and tend to neglect that, maybe, just maybe...
The enemy was more competent than you are.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2010-05-12 09:14
660 is more than a reasonable range to dodge enemy dreads, no one says you have to STAY in range every second to fire. During my month or so playing K'luth barely anyone used the beak anyways, you have missiles for long range combat, use them. As for the 92 signature, I'd hope someone would know better than to try to engage the enemy where they clearly have the advantage.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-05-12 09:37
I'm considered to be the K'luth developer.
Regardless of any players opinion of the dev team, we do play other factions. I myself tend to fly on other accounts due to the stigma of being a mod/dev skewing the feedback we get (which happens an aweful lot).
Azreal is one of the K'luth players who I regularly check with when I think about making a change. He has a generally good understanding of the way the faction works, and most important of all, how the faction is supposed to work.
That all been said, K'luth is a VERY difficult faction to balance and tweak. When I originally faught for the increase of K'luth armour when 1.5 was in development, we had no idea just how much it would change the K'luth. They are by far the most difficult faction to work on.
That all been said, you have received many buffs through the history of 1.5 and it's only natural that as time goes on further balancing is required. Since the ranges were recently changed quite significantly on cannons and core weapons, it's only natural we will see tweaks to these ranges over a small period of time afterwards.
As we always do, if a buff or nerf is too steep, we reduce the amount until we're comfortable with what we have. We have no real data on how this change affects the gameplay due to it not being in release yet, but I want to stress that anything in beta is by no means final by any stretch of the law.
Try to remember however, that a good representative does not make a good developer, or a good moderator; just as a good moderator doesn't mean a good developer and vise versa. Picking either is a tough and difficult job, however as Faustus has stated in the past, we welcome anyone with good C++ knowledge and a good player history. Moderators are a different story entirely however.
- Jack
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-05-12 09:41 ]
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Phoebuzz
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 110
| Posted: 2010-05-12 09:38
Quote:
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On 2010-05-12 09:14, Sens, Shigernafy's Sentinel wrote:
660 is more than a reasonable range to dodge enemy dreads, no one says you have to STAY in range every second to fire. During my month or so playing K'luth barely anyone used the beak anyways, you have missiles for long range combat, use them. As for the 92 signature, I'd hope someone would know better than to try to engage the enemy where they clearly have the advantage.
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Ok, K'luth NEEDS a voice to talk reason to the dev teams.
Someone that would actually know that cannons are very rapid fire and K'luth weaponry is almost entirely mounted on the front arc, thus preventing K'luth from keeping their distance unless they want to use only 1/3 of their firepower.
But who am I kidding. A range reduction of 17.5% is considered a 'tweak' around here. Heh!
[ This Message was edited by: Phoebuzz on 2010-05-12 09:51 ]
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