| Author |
Problems with scenario Persistent Ships |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2010-03-29 18:54
I'm a scenario player (lately more in the MV though, go figure), and I'm concerned about the new ruling letting people spawn ships from previous maps without a sy. It was causing enough trouble when it was last allowed that enough people complained and a ruling was made that it was not allowed; that each map should be treated as a new game and nothing from the previous map was allowed to carry over.
I agreed with the ruling even though I was one of the ones who used ships and infantry from previous maps. It causes too many problems:
1 - Anyone just joining the server is potentially at a big disadvantage when there's enemy dreads and stations around, unless there's a friendly sy available.
2 - Using dreads and stations in the beginning of a new map seriously impairs the other teams' ability to capture and build a sy, unless they have their own dreads and stations to defend. This has before and will again lead to:
3 - People simply logging off the server when they see enemy dreads and stations from last map while they cannot get them yet. If you were just logging into scenario, and saw the enemy had dreads and/or stations completely preventing you from building a sy, would you stick around? How are you gonna combat that when you're limited to frigates, scouts, transports and engineers?
4 - Big problems with certain maps, most notably Cygnus but including Luyten and some others. These map cannot spawn dreads or stations, and come up quite a lot in rotation, so if any team has big ships from previous maps, they can completely shut down the opposing team who can only hope to build cruisers at best, and only if the big ships aren't harassing them. It becomes so one-sided that entire teams just leave. This problem is also present when:
5 - The Sirius map comes up in rotation. It's the first time Kluth are available, but anyone choosing Kluth is potentially at a major disadvantage. Yeah, all the Kluth haters probably don't mind one bit, but it really does cripple Kluth in scenarios if players keep playing from map to map up to and beyond Sirius.
6 - Using resources and especially infantry from previous maps on a new map right at the start gives players who were around for the previous map an enormous advantage. Just garage a few transports with heavy inf, and next map nobody will be able to stop you from capping whatever planet you want. This was a favorite tactic of myself and a few others, but man is it unfair. How is the team without the benefit of heavy inf from previous map gonna hope to capture the important planets?
There is one benefit to being able to use ships and resources from previous maps though: Many times those who spawn their big ships in the beginning aren't interested in capping planets or engineering, so you can win the map and delete the ship they're in  I've done this too. Bye bye stations and dreads! (fyi for those who don't know, the ship you're currently flying doesn't carry over, only your garage does)
There's more potential problems, these are just the ones I remember most.
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2010-03-29 19:39
I completely agree on every point. I was faced with similar problems back when I played senario a lot in 483. Sometimes people found a way to sneak a ship from a previous map into play even though it wasnt supposed to be possible, and it really just destroys the idea of the senario server. It becomes essentially a one-system MV where the infrastructure deletes on regular intervals.
Every map should be a fresh start. The only thing you carry with you from one senario to the next should be skill and prestige.
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-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
| Posted: 2010-03-29 21:41
MrSparkle
Problems and Conserns are rejected.
Go have a beer and get over it.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-03-29 21:54
Quote:
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On 2010-03-29 21:41, --Daedalus-- wrote:
MrSparkle
Problems and Conserns are rejected.
Go have a beer and get over it.
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Hehe that's what you think 
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-03-29 23:01
Staff is strange.
First they said it was not suppose to be like that , then it suddenly is suppose to be like that.
It is like an old say , lick what you spit out..
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[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-03-30 06:21
I would only allow the SCB, command dread, trannys and engiees from last map to move over as those are support craft, not attack. I like using and SCB to build a planet because for one I dont get killed by noobs trying to get an easy kill. Using res and inf from last map helps you get the planet you want sooner and most likely will help you keep it too as its a mad dash at the start of every map.
For maps that come up with only Ice planets and people are using stations/dreads....umm tough luck? That and mostly those maps are skipped by general consensus since they are too small and dont allow dread building.
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Admiral Alucard (2IC)
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: April 30, 2004
Posts: 279
From: St. Helens, England
| Posted: 2010-03-30 07:15
I hve knoticed when I have had ships left from the last maps when they have just been ICC vs UGTO vs Luth that even if I wanted to spawn say my previous ICC dread when its a ICC/UGTO vs Luth when on ICC I can't because it says different faction (or something to that extent) If you cant make the ships from the last match dissapear atleast try to implement something like this on each map so that its a different faction number for each map, i.e UGTO 1-10 ICC 11-20 Luth 21-30 and then change the faction number for each map so that people cant abuse ship use from previous matches
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Quod nos non interficit, nos fortiores facitrnrn
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Point Of No Return
Chief Marshal
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 24, 2007
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2010-03-30 09:12
Having ships carried over from a previous map in scenario is wrong and should never be allowed. It changes the whole balance of game play, new map = empty garage = start building up planets and resources and at most some corvette or frigate battles for the first part of the 60 - 120 min map. This is the place where people learn to build a planet, how they learn how to pilot ships in combat, and learn how not to cheat. Because someone parking a carried over ship from a previous map and parking it right next to an oppossing sides planets or objectives is cheating, whether or not its the clients or severs fault it makes no differance.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2010-03-30 09:17
What happened, was that the code got changed a while back to leave the ships intact from map to map, unknown to me that a rule was put in place that all players should remove their ships from the previous map.
You guys are correct, it gives too much advantage to one team or another of we allow ships from a previous map. We are going to fix the server code to remove all ships between maps again... until that is released, please go back to scrapping your ships between maps.
-F
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-03-30 13:05
You guys are really on the ball lately
EDIT: That's not sarcasm btw. Lots of good developing going on.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2010-03-30 13:05 ]
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-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
| Posted: 2010-03-30 17:07
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 09:17, Faustus wrote:
What happened, was that the code got changed a while back to leave the ships intact from map to map, unknown to me that a rule was put in place that all players should remove their ships from the previous map.
You guys are correct, it gives too much advantage to one team or another of we allow ships from a previous map. We are going to fix the server code to remove all ships between maps again... until that is released, please go back to scrapping your ships between maps.
-F
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NEVER. You cants make me scrap my ship.
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El Guapo
Chief Marshal
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 276
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
| Posted: 2010-03-30 17:48
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 17:07, --Daedalus-- wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 09:17, Faustus wrote:
What happened, was that the code got changed a while back to leave the ships intact from map to map, unknown to me that a rule was put in place that all players should remove their ships from the previous map.
You guys are correct, it gives too much advantage to one team or another of we allow ships from a previous map. We are going to fix the server code to remove all ships between maps again... until that is released, please go back to scrapping your ships between maps.
-F
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NEVER. You cants make me scrap my ship.
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No no he can't... But one thing -F can do is delete your account and perma ban ya.
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*Admiral Lucian*
Admiral
Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 6
From: Canada
| Posted: 2010-03-30 21:40
At first I thought this was changed because of the credit system. Players using credits on 1 ship and would beable to carry it over to next map so they dont loose their upgrades.
If this is going to be fixed I have a suggestion to help those players.
Change the garage options when you buy upgrades. Make it so the upgrade charges are not by death but are applied per ship sent out.
For example someone loads the upgrades and selects their ship to send out. The ship they are flying will have all the upgrades but the ones in garage will loose 1 durability/charge. If the ship gets blown up it looses the upgrades and you have to re apply them via garage. This way you can have upgrades trade over between scenario maps without having people complaining they lost all their upgrades.
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