| Author |
What would you do? |
Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
|  Posted: 2009-09-21 23:58
Just curious for opinions.
If Faustus made a DarkSpace 2.0 or whatever, a new version, complete revamp, what would you personally like to see?
Want custom ships? How custom? Enough to introduce crafting?
What about resources?
What about bombing, planet capturing?
Missions? What about AI?
What about instances?
I'd like to see what people might come up with.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-09-22 01:40
Quote:
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On 2009-09-21 23:58, Azreal wrote:
Just curious for opinions.
If Faustus made a DarkSpace 2.0 or whatever, a new version, complete revamp, what would you personally like to see?
Want custom ships? How custom? Enough to introduce crafting?
What about resources?
What about bombing, planet capturing?
Missions? What about AI?
What about instances?
I'd like to see what people might come up with.
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This is a terrible can of worms to open up.
To be honest, I really don't want to see a complete revamp. Complete revamps are what has pretty much plagued DS since I've started.
All it does is bring new bugs, new imbalances. Nothing is perfect when you start from scratch. This is realism speaking.
This version has only small problems. Small things which if changed, actually make the game fun.
Infact, the game is pretty okay as it is - as long as you don't mind those small problems.
But alot of people do. And thats why people really don't play. So that minority 10 player active playerbase really doesn't matter from my point of view.
Anyways, why not? I'll just repost what has been yelled by those sensible folks for a while.
- Complete customization of ships is never a good idea. Too big a can of pain in the ass to properly balance. Instead:
Add more variety to existing gadgets. Choose more power over more energy drain/slower projectile whatever. You get the idea. Let people choose their poison. There must always be downsides.
- More ships IS a good idea though because:
More ships means we can stop mixing things. You can make ships more specific for more specific roles. This brings better team aspects of the game into play. If just one person can fufill more roles than two or three, this detracts from one of the games major attractions : teamwork.
But people complain OH ME OH MY THERE ARE NOT ALWAYS OTHER PEOPLE.
Well if the game didn't suck that really wouldn't be an issue would it? Speaking of the lack of people and other justifications for this pointless reason for some things...
- AI takes away from the main game in and of itself. DS isn't a PvE game. It wasn't then, it shouldn't be now. Let other MMOs try the grind for the pleasure of stupid enemies path. DS thrived as a niche game. It may not be a rich path, but it is at least a successful one.
And that niche is PvP. If the game doesn't suck for everyone, then everyone has fun. People play. People enjoy. People stick around.
No one worries about nothing to fight. Unless of course, of the next small problem.
- Nothing to fight over.
Oh sure we got planets. But people can't fight for the sake of fighting. War, whether real or imagined, need something to fight over. Whether its an idea, a rather pretty woman, or piece of land that some might argue is of the better quality, its important.
People need that drive.
And planets are useless. There is no reason to have more than one. Ships can be saved, so resources after the first rush of people don't matter. Ships don't dissapear on death, so they never need to be reused. Upgrades cost nothing.
This whole lack of anything to fight over makes a planetary takeover - the drive to take over the universe - dull, repetitive, and unnecessary. Nobody lacks that last one especially. People will do dull and repetitive things if they are neccessary. And planets captures do not need to be all three.
Give people something to fight for. There are many suggestions, from resource scarcity, to special upgrades at planets, to random bonuses to building damn forts around one if you own it. Whatever. Give a reason to take over the universe rather than its because its there.
But in the end, even fighting for nothing is terrible because...
- The game is far too top heavy.
And this is a bad thing in this game.
Its okay in many MMOs, because top heavy people fight with just top heavy other people.
But in this one you're stuck together. Scouts don't get the option of other scouts to fight with if they so choose. Its either fight big or fight nothing.
Either way, new people lose.
And thats a big attraction to the game. Fighting together, big and small, is a big attractant. Seeing huge things in action but yet able to assist in their demise is a fantastic thing for both new and old players.
But we've corrupted that. Dreadnoughts are the only things that give quick battles and easy battles. Their only match is unfortunately, other dreadnoughts.
Whatever kind of rebuttle to that is pointless - very few people choose the obviously harder and longer route of using smaller ships to take them out. There are so many, many MANY reasons why few people choose to fly small ships over big ones.
And since I'm taking the opportunity for this post, I'm going to write every last damn one.
- Smaller ships die easier to bigger ships than ships of their own size. This makes it best to use Dreadnoughts because they can take out everything the easiest.
- Smaller ships weapons do less volley damage, but more DPS. This initially sounds like a good thing, but given that battles end quicker between dreadnoughts than they do between destroyers, it makes using smaller ships frustrating.
This is because fast paced battles are more fun than agonizingly slow ones. Battles between two skilled pilots in a small ship can last over ten minutes.
Of spacebar mashing. Not fun.
Between two dreadnoughts? 30 seconds max.
You and everyone reading this knows which one they would choose.
Some may argue that this game is not about individual battles and they are correct. However, individual battles are exaggerate in a fleet battle.
A battle between skilled pilots in small ships in a fleet war would last much longer than one between Dreadnoughts. DS needs its fast pace or the gameplay stalls.
Which brings to the next point -
- Smaller ships have no role in fleet battles.
This means new players in a fleet battle? They're screwed. And nobody - nobody can convince themselves that resupplying or engineering is how anyone wants to spent their first six ranks.
Combat is the games heart. Its the most fleshed out part as well - everything else supports its weight, so everything else doesn't appeal well to carebears.
With nothing to do but being eaten alive in a swarm of dreadnoughts, dying becomes very easy to anyone in a smaller combat ship. It makes their very existance pointless.
And not a one person can say that they do between smaller ship fleet battles because in the MV, there is no such thing.
There will always be Dreads, because Dreads are the best. And the majority of people will play the best, if even it is only to have a better time playing.
This should not be.
These things don't make the game a happy place, it makes it a place where new players go ARGH.
So we get the point right? Small ships suck. If they didn't, people would fly them more. If they had a use, smaller ship enthusiasts such as myself would fly them just for that use. But they are boring, they are flying paper planes, and anything they can do, I can do better in a Dreadnought.
Pointless.
This is the single biggest aspect, in my opinion, that kills the game. The fact that there are nothing but battles between one class of ships.
And maybe a few other ships thrown in for the hell of it.
Every single version has had this problem since I've been here. Including the last one even more specifically then usual. There always exists a 'best'. This is a retarded thing to promote in this game. It works in standard MMORPGS.
This isn't one of those. The way its been designed, it should never have come to this point.
All that has ever needed to be done was promote this one single point:
No one ship better than another. Every ship its own role. Every class its unique style.
That should be repeated forever in a repeat forever machine.
This goes all the way up the ladder.
(if flown properly) A cruiser can take another cruiser out in a quick and efficent manner. A cruiser could take out a dreadnought, or it could take out a destroyer too, but it would not be as quick or as efficent as a destroyer taking out a destroyer or a dreadnought taking out a dreadnought (if they are flown properly.)
And then you give the class its role (mainstay of fleet), and you throw varietys in and make them better at doing specific things in that role. Such as, a torpedo cruiser would be better at taking out larger ships, but then adversely suck more against its own class. (so cruisers better against other cruisers would totally main them and protect bigger ships which aren't as good at doing so[/b].)
In this manner it all works out. Everything has something to do, nobody gets left out.
And people who complain that they can't do everything in one damn ship can leave the game and go play EvE.
That model up there? That model is the one that would make just the pure sake of fighting fun. At least.
And in this long post, there are still small problems. Still those small damn problems.
But this post as already reached critical mass, and if you made it this far, you might actually care about this damn game. And if you agree with me, then this game might go somewhere.
But if people don't, then enjoy your broken game, and may it stay that way through your stubborness.
-Ent
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
| Posted: 2009-09-22 03:32
i second this post wholeheartedly.
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captain of the ICC Assault Cruiser C.S.S. Sledgehammer
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Reek Havoc *XO*
Chief Marshal
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 327
From: Philadelphia
| Posted: 2009-09-22 04:36
I encourage you all to try DSU then. Still a long way to go but defintely seeing more balance already beteen the factions. Ent - great points all around, you captured the why's of the game being abandoned. Hopefully the new engine and source will address many points today. Ultimately what needed to happen in this version is balance and the current dev team certainly didn't achieve that. Along with changing the complete dynamics of the game and taking out key aspects of it (bombing and Planet def. for example) and adding others (A.I. that is useless and implemented poorly sucking up server resources) has taken its toll. DSU will live on as the next version is released and hopefully DSA will answer our crys.
-RH
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DarkSpace: ICCU (Fleet tag: =ICC=) is always recruiting ICC pilots! (/clan join =ICC=)
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2009-09-22 05:24
what would i do?
Ask if my DS subscribtion will still be valid for 2.0
That and ask faustus to try out the game Breed and ask him to start working on DarkSpace Assault..
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DS Discordion
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Mersenne Twister
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 11, 2003
Posts: 1161
From: Sector C Test Labs and Contol Facilities
| Posted: 2009-09-22 09:54
Quote:
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On 2009-09-22 01:40, Enterprise wrote:
This is a terrible can of worms to open up.
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we agree.
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I wouldn't screw with it if I were you. The doctor already holds you in poor favor. Messing with this might really fry his shorts.
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