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Kluth Cloak vs ECCM Pinging (Constructive posts please) |
NiteHawk
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 16, 2001
Posts: 209
From: Sag Hothha
|  Posted: 2008-10-09 18:09
I'm not here start a war, I'm here to actually contruct a post on how people feel towards cloak vs pinging. I'd love to get some feedback as there was a discussion about this. But please, don't flame, or bash, I am happy with my luthies, and I do enjoy the game. Feel free to fight the changes, or support them, but constructive is the key here.
I think there is a issue with pinging. Though I welcome the fact that they bring in eccm pinging, because it makes the luth cloak actually have a 'weakness' which all equippables should have. This solves the issue that many games have when adding 'cloak', the godlike abilties it gives, hey, cloaking simply rules.
When there is one ship, it doesn't seem to be an issue, but it is more when several ships are around. It seems to nullify the cloak greatly, since several are eccm pinging. Kluth are ment more for close range, and they do that, with many distrupters. However, it makes it almost impossible to get near. I think I was detected once about 1300gu away (while trying to get away I was being fired at still, locked on, could be the 'orders' bug, but I don't think it was.) And I feel this is simply very high. If it not that high, then I'm not entirely sure what the max limit is. But I have some suggestions.
For once, While cloaked, I do not think the max eccm range should be so high, max 500gu to be spotted when near? This would give them at least warning since it's not near the rupter range.
Second, I'd either increase ECCM 'pinging' time, or make it so they can ping every 6-9 seconds, BUT you can only be 'spotted' every actual 6-9 seconds, or something like that.
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Another suggestion would be to make it so that we cannot be 'locked on' while being pinged, instead, they would only be able to 'see' where we are, but not be able to lock, thus they would need to click on a point in space and fire instead. I do like this idea more, but that is just me.
Suggestions? Comments? Disliking it? Post here. Nicely. You may get a cookie.
Edit: I'd also like to bring up someone stated Scanners find luth as well. Is that as it should be? I don't really think scanners, which are made for grabbing planet structures at a far range, should do the same as pinging.
[ This Message was edited by: NiteHawk on 2008-10-09 18:17 ]
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Winters Rapture
Fleet Admiral
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 09, 2007
Posts: 355
| Posted: 2008-10-09 18:19
lol i do like the idea of the pinging, so i do not want to get reed of it.
well those are my thoughts.
btw not to discourage anyone, but i am pritty sure that the devs are far to busy to make these small changes to help the factions.
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DragonSlayer*Sanctuary*
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 233
From: dragonslayer83
| Posted: 2008-10-09 18:22
well nitehawk, im not long winded as u but seeing u been here since 01 i know u have seen a big change since then. Use to if u had enuff ECCM u could still target them. And even cloaked if u looked u could use ctrl to target and mouse to target them. at least they still have a chance if they keep there distance. Kluth are suppose to be stealthy. If someone detected a kluth aproaching yes teh pinging would begin. But if they snuck in and decloaked right on the target. the odds would be in the're favor.
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G.Adm. Kirk
Grand Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 91
From: Baton Rouge, LA
| Posted: 2008-10-09 18:24
Changing the system to only allow someone to be pinged once over a certain interval would likely require a rewrite of a large portion of the game code, but I do think that the pinging is a it skewed in favor of the uggies.
I like the idea of the dedicated ship (similar to interdictor).
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2008-10-09 18:30
eccm cooldown's been increased to 15seconds. we'll see how that goes
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2008-10-09 19:18
Im still voting for dedicated Cloackhunters equipped with an ping devoce that will ping eve XX seconds with an XX chance of succes (handvavium some restrictions on it so that multiples of the ship dont get a flat boost of overall cloack detection.) and with beacons.
Should Cruiser size so you got some defensive capability for it and on the other hand a good target for kluth to go after as primary. Both icc and ugto would most likely have something like that if eccm actualy worked as ping device. Making a ship dedicated to it seems plausible.
The whole turn eccm on and off on your is just annoying and actualy elevating it to being a gamefeature is just plain backwards.
If its intended to counter kluth cloack it should be equaly simple to use(hit button), and not be a mindnumbing CHORE.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-09 19:53
15 sec cool down seems reasonable. And much easier to change back if too nesssary.
While i thought the main effect of ECCM on cloake was to raise the timer, the 'ping' just came as a side effect. I do agree that with the limited beacon equiped ships, something should balance the cloak.
i agree with previous posts that the main concern is a swarm of eccm pings that renders the cloak ineffective altogather.
15 sec cool down would make the "ping" effect more comparable to the Flux wave or Pulse wave. creating a very neat device with 2 effects.
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NiteHawk
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 16, 2001
Posts: 209
From: Sag Hothha
| Posted: 2008-10-09 19:54
It would be pretty cool, but might require alot of work for a new ship type.
Anyways just need to get a fine balance in the end though. I'm sure it will happen, just takes alot of testing. 15 seconds sounds like a good trial to test on as well.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-09 20:12
Please bare in mind that we've increased the armour knowing that pinging is in the game. K'luth have much more than they normally do.
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Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda)
Grand Admiral
Sanity Assassins
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 919
From: Pittsburgh PA, USA
| Posted: 2008-10-09 20:16
Good post nitehawk. I agree, the ping sems a bit strong now. It makes the cloak function almost inoperable near enemy fleets. This hampers small groups of Luth to operate well....and most of the time we are in small groups.
When we come across a large fleet its practically a ping fest and makes us unable to move about with stealth. Still in this patch our ships are not the strongest yet they have improved. Our CORE weapon the "SI" is a bit weak and since our cloakes are easily uncovered it puts us to a disadvantage most of the time.
Im not asking for the advantage to be in our favor, just more equallity in strengths of each faction. We all know ICC and Luth have some issues now and UTGO seem to be a power house now.
We need to try and find a way to evenly match our ways of playing the game faction to faction for multiple reasons. 1; to avoid another .484, 2; to avoid pissing off a whole faction of players and having one faction practically vacate like with the Kluth in .484, 3; Also to make this game more fun, an evenly matched setup I think will bring diversity and more players to DS and keep those already here around for a long time.
Lets make this patch PERFECT. We have come this far, lets polish it up and even take care of the "small" issues, for we all know its the small issues that grow into overblown pains in our asses.
[ This Message was edited by: Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda) on 2008-10-09 20:17 ]
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2008-10-09 22:17
Quote:
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On
We need to try and find a way to evenly match our ways of playing the game faction to faction for multiple reasons. 1; to avoid another .483, 2; to avoid pissing off a whole faction of players and having one faction practically vacate like with the Kluth in .483, 3; Also to make this game more fun, an evenly matched setup I think will bring diversity and more players to DS and keep those already here around for a long time.
[ This Message was edited by: Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda) on 2008-10-09 20:17 ]
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*fixed*
on a side note though eccm pinging maybe a pain, but i have noticed luth dred armor is alot stronger than it was last patch. even if you are pinged, you show up for maybe 2 seconds at the most, in that time we gotta target you then mash the space bar.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-09 22:42
bogie, plz read previous posts more carfully.
The problem as Nite has detailedly stated, is not from individual ping, but continous ping form a fleet.
Simple math: If ping cool down was 6sec like before, all it takes is 6 ships of any class with eccm, to ping almost continuously.
doran's solution should greatly ease this issue. now players would have to use the ping more carfully. Like other speciall II devices, Flux wave, Pulse wave.
[ This Message was edited by: Delando on 2008-10-09 22:47 ]
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2008-10-10 04:54
As i said, dedicated cloack hunter with penaltys the more of those ships are actively searching.
Bitch to create but an easy to balance tool.
Fleet pinging is wrong (not only balance wise but also because its so stupid to use, hitting p all 15 seconds like some robot isnt' exactly good design.) and it just wont get better if the playerbase increases.
more players more pings = absolute negation of kluths trade mark.
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2008-10-10 05:08
Quote:
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On 2008-10-10 04:54, Russian Roulette with Muskets wrote:
As i said, dedicated cloack hunter with penaltys the more of those ships are actively searching.
Bitch to create but an easy to balance tool.
Fleet pinging is wrong (not only balance wise but also because its so stupid to use, hitting p all 15 seconds like some robot isnt' exactly good design.) and it just wont get better if the playerbase increases.
more players more pings = absolute negation of kluths trade mark.
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AGREED i been trying to say the same thing
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NiteHawk
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 16, 2001
Posts: 209
From: Sag Hothha
| Posted: 2008-10-10 06:41
True Jack, I agree, the armor does seem alot thicker then before. I think the whole thing with the pinging is that theres usually a few stations out now, with EAD's etc, what ends up happening is you get QST'ed by everyone during the pingings.
I do like the idea of pingings in the end though, helps out definatly more benifical then negative.
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