| Author |
What happened today... |
Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
|  Posted: 2008-03-20 13:33
I can see it from both sides. No one was wrong. As usual of almost all human conflicts, it was a lack of information and lack of trust that caused it all.
1) A mirving ship wipes planet after planet of UGTO.
2) In response to this mirving vessel (as I always do), I field a dictor to hunt it down. And, as I always do, I would then log it again and return to combat.
3) Time passes waiting for the bomber to show himself again. I get bored and begin recapping blank planets to kill time.
4) I am detected by both the mirving vessel and the other enemies. The mirver knows the game and logs. The other enemies, not paying attention to their ally mirving, simply see a dictor waiting to get them and ruin combat.
5) Enemies field a dictor to counter my dictor.
6) In the absence of enemy resistance, a neutron bomber is fielded to recapture planets.
7) The enemy, seeing dictors as now fair-play, attack the neutroning bomber with their dictor and a fleet of combat ships.
8) I see a neutroning bomber being dictored and swarmed, justifying me to engage their combat with my dictor.
9) The neutroning bomber is killed in the battle. The enemy dictor also lags into a planet and dies.
10) The UGTO fleet forms up to engage this 'dictoring combat fleet', seeing the ICC as the ones to bring dictors into combat, thus justifying now dictoring and killing every enemy pilot involved in that incident. The ICC of course, having detected my dictor beforehand, see it as UGTO bringing the dictor into combat first, even though I had no intension of doing so.
11) The UGTO fleet kills most of the combat ships from the 'dictor fleet'. At that time, I log my dictor and hope to return to non-dictor combat, since the ICC dictor was dead and mine was logging now. Although I knew with an 80% certainty that Mousey would very likely bring that dictor back out, I had to follow my morals and log my dictor anyway.
12) I return to the MV in my battle cruiser and hope to get some crusier combat rolling. It is not long before this happens. Several expertly done point jumps and Ejump tracks later, I am hurting on hull and looking for a way out.
13) Mousey returns in his dictor (as I predicted he would).
14) I am killed. UGTO now sees the ICC bringing dictors into combat TWICE, even after we have honorably logged our own dictor to keep the combat/fun rolling.
15) UGTO is no longer interested in combat. Everyone logs, thinking the ICCs are a bunch of poor sports.
16) ICC sees me as getting my just-desserts for bring a dictor out in the first place, even tho I never took into combat, nor intended to. They see us die to a dictor, as they did shortly before, and now log.
17) The ICC see us as a bunch of poor sports. They wait in the MV hoping combat will resume, but it does not.
18) The ICC log as well.
Moral of the story: A chain of events STARTING with someone Mirving their way to Grand Admiral resulted in a group of angry people and no one in the MV, yet again damaging the ability of DS to survive until 484 is released.
[ This Message was edited by: Kanman *FC* on 2008-03-20 13:33 ]
_________________
|
Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda)
Grand Admiral
Sanity Assassins
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 919
From: Pittsburgh PA, USA
| Posted: 2008-03-20 13:50
I see your point Kan, but dictors are part of the game no matter how they are used. K'Luth..or I..have been using a Dictor lots lately, we have been dictor killing any icc found in K'Luth space due to the extensive bombing our faction has recieved in the past week. The bombing of prebuilts and other easy targets as well as fully built planets. Bombing is fine in my book, but when you level an entire faction...expect us to pull out the dirty cards and make your day as miserable as ours. I expect it...you all should to.
ICC has been on a bomb rampage. Not even I has ever went and bombed 4-5 systems in one night out of not wanting to be a total jackoff. 1-2 systems, i can see that maybe if your that bored. but the whole MV? Come on. Expect the dictor. Deal with it. If you can dish it out, then get ready to recieve some poor treatment...im pointing at you ICC. And dont go on about how ICC doesnt Mirv, thats a crock, a huge crock. I would even go as far as to call the ICC the BOMB faction. You guys are seriously the worst, with bombing and beacon "clouds".
For a while, and a while longer to come I wont be attacking UTGO at all. Ill even get my fleet to do the same. If anyone is to be bombed, dictored, or put under our thumbs, its ICC.
[ This Message was edited by: Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda) on 2008-03-20 13:55 ]
_________________
|
Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2008-03-20 14:11
As usual, a couple of people are out to spoil everyone's attempt to have fun at the game. Why not name those people, and let others ruin THEIR fun when they log on? Dictor them, destroy them, make it your fleet's mission. Drive the mirving losers from the game. But hey, it's been said before, and the whining minority (eg: mirvers) always seem to have their way.
I'm all for vigilante justice.
_________________
-so precious lovin the thrill...
|
Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2008-03-20 14:14
Quote:
|
On 2008-03-20 14:11, Rae wrote:
As usual, a couple of people are out to spoil everyone's attempt to have fun at the game. Why not name those people, and let others ruin THEIR fun when they log on? Dictor them, destroy them, make it your fleet's mission. Drive the mirving losers from the game. But hey, it's been said before, and the whining minority (eg: mirvers) always seem to have their way.
I'm all for vigilante justice.
|
|
Please See the motto of VCA.... hunting Mirvers IS our fleet's mission.
[ This Message was edited by: Kanman *FC* on 2008-03-20 14:14 ]
_________________
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2008-03-20 14:42
Quote:
|
For a while, and a while longer to come I wont be attacking UTGO at all. Ill even get my fleet to do the same. If anyone is to be bombed, dictored, or put under our thumbs, its ICC. |
|
For a while, and a while longer to come I won't be playing in the Metaverse at all. I'll even get my friends to do the same. If anyone is to be bombed, dictored or put under anyone's thumbs, the game is just ruined.
Of course I'm not serious, but that is the sort of reaction your response to the matter could invite to newcomers. People that haven't had such a long attachment to the game that they will persevere.
Let's face it. Incidents like these ruin the game. The community is going/has already gone to hell and is divided into three/two camps.
UGTO is frustrated now, as they feel they were dictored by ICC for no reason other than that we wanted to ruin combat.
ICC is frustrated, because those that had no deal in the entire MiRVing runs get punished for what a single player did. (who wasn't even online anymore)
K'luth is frustrated, because they have lost entire systems to a bunch of MiRVers and thus decide to ruin all of the ICC players' fun in response.
What do we get? A chain of frustrated players just going out to ruin eachothers' fun.
Xpli$it often says, "An eye for an eye leaves the world blind."
Let's just get one thing clear here. It annoys me greatly, and I need to get it off my chest.
When you read my posts, read what I write: Do not immediately say, "ICC". I am not the ICC. I am not a faction. I do not represent their feelings, their thoughts and their personalities. I am me. I am nothing more than a single player that likes the ICC Ship designs and shielding.
I am a paying member of this community that would hate to see the one game I pay for go to waste because the community miscommunicates and ends up going to great extremes.
So now what is the problem? A single player decided to MiRV a few UGTO planets, and a single player decided to MiRV K'luth to leave them crippled. (consequently, when K'luth decided to not attack UGTO anymore and both groups had Interdictors, more ICC went to MiRV K'luth.) Unfortunately, the MiRVers are all ICC.
What happens now? No one knows the ones who did it - Well, I have a good idea of who did it. In fact, I know exactly who did it. But that's beside the point.
What is the point is that now, as Sanity has presented, the major K'luth fleet has decided that it is now the point to hit ICC with all they've got, which includes Interdictors. UGTO has decided that ICC always field interdictors, and sometimes field Interdictors as a pre-emptive measure. ICC gets frustrated as the major fleet prohibits the use of Interdictors and MiRVing (as well as EDs), but they do have to take on interdictors, Mirvers and Picket Destroyers.
As you can see, this is a mess. A huge mess. A gigantic, catastrophical mess generated by a lack of communication and a lot of anger from people that now want to ruin others' day.
We can all diagnose what the problem is. We all nod furiously when we say MiRVers ruin the game, that Interdictors ruin combat and that ED/PD is a lame ship to use.
But there's no solution. No one sits together and ponders on a solution. We all sit here, wailing, "Oh, 484 will make everything better." and do nothing to improve our current situation.
Now we have Darkspace Academy, an initiative I gladly will lend my hand to, that aims to improve new players and make the game fun for them.
But what of the veterans? Let's face it - Us veterans are the root of the problem. We are the ones ruining our game.
So rather than diagnose what the problem is, how about we sit together and decide on a way we can all fix this through meaningful dialogue and attempt to ameliorate the community's current run-down state and stop the chain of "ruining eachothers' fun"?
As a personal feeling, I am prepared to go K'luth side and rebuild ALL the flattened planets to the best of my ability. I am prepared to go UGTO side and do the exact same thing for them.
But that doesn't fix the problem - The problem is sad chain of events that lead to frustrated players going out of their way to ruin another's fun.
_________________
|
Leviatan
Cadet
Joined: April 22, 2005
Posts: 186
| Posted: 2008-03-20 14:52
Quote:
|
On 2008-03-20 14:11, Rae wrote:
As usual, a couple of people are out to spoil everyone's attempt to have fun at the game. Why not name those people, and let others ruin THEIR fun when they log on? Dictor them, destroy them, make it your fleet's mission. Drive the mirving losers from the game. But hey, it's been said before, and the whining minority (eg: mirvers) always seem to have their way.
I'm all for vigilante justice.
|
|
Hahaha, and you think scurvy bi-pedal geiger meters like you aren't annoying?
There is a reason I only ever use bomber destroyers and clavates; they can be replaced with one or two bombing runs.
Now if you start roving after people who are just playing the game within the rules of conduct, which by the way, dont forbid nuking the donkeys out of UGTO, ICC or even K'luth for that matter, as long as it doesnt involve methods prohibited by the rules of conduct, I think someone might have something to tell you about it.
As for the whining minority, there are exactly three active anti-mirv whiners on these forums, that is you, the original poster, and starfist. You three collectively form up the online representation of the IAEA. I can count much more than three people that use mirvs but never make threads about interdictors.
For instance, I dont make big "OMGWTF" threads about the interdictors people use, not sure why do you think that people like the OP whining about mirvs is somehow different.
Both mirvs and dictors are a part of the game and an intended game mechanic, this dead horse has been flogged over and over in the past two years and you know what? It's still dead, eg. not breathing, not going anywhere.
_________________
|
Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2008-03-20 15:09
@Tactical Missile: And yet nothing you said changes the validity of my original argument in the OP. It is still a completely logical progression of events, clearly linking the mirver to the poor state of the MV. This is beyond your ability to deny and therefore not whining. Its an objective analysis.
_________________
|
Dionysian *EP5* (Angel of Destruction)
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: November 21, 2003
Posts: 135
| Posted: 2008-03-20 15:29
@ Tactical Missile
Everything you say re Mirvs and Dictors is true.
What we are arguing is that given that the game is broken, - using the most broken parts of it excessively and without consideration for ENJOYMENT will have consequences. The immediate consequebce is that you pi$$ everyone off - the long term one that people stop playing and the game "dies." Those of us that love the game and sub will try and stop that.
@ Bardiche
Completley take your point. You are one of a few ICC players that I (and probably a lot of UGTO) have respect for.
All you can do is isolate the mirver. If a player comes to assist a mirver in a Sup or combat or Dictor then they're only one step removed from being a Mirver in my eye.
If they choose to bomb, and UGTO choose to chase them down , you are equally at liberty to sit on the side and not engage the anti mirver fleet. VCA would rarely dictor you in that situation and i'm sure that a little combat with you would be ok!!
One thing that we could do would be to draw up an agreemnet between the main fleets on each faction that says No mirving ( accept that some clusters might need it) no Dictoring - except to kill Mirvers and no supporting of any player in any way who breaks this code.
They might chose to play unfair - doesn;t mean we have to help them.
_________________
|
Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2008-03-20 16:14
Hahaha, and you think scurvy bi-pedal geiger meters like you aren't annoying?
There is a reason I only ever use bomber destroyers and clavates; they can be replaced with one or two bombing runs.
Now if you start roving after people who are just playing the game within the rules of conduct, which by the way, dont forbid nuking the donkeys out of UGTO, ICC or even K'luth for that matter, as long as it doesnt involve methods prohibited by the rules of conduct, I think someone might have something to tell you about it.
As for the whining minority, there are exactly three active anti-mirv whiners on these forums, that is you, the original poster, and starfist. You three collectively form up the online representation of the IAEA. I can count much more than three people that use mirvs but never make threads about interdictors.
For instance, I dont make big "OMGWTF" threads about the interdictors people use, not sure why do you think that people like the OP whining about mirvs is somehow different.
Both mirvs and dictors are a part of the game and an intended game mechanic, this dead horse has been flogged over and over in the past two years and you know what? It's still dead, eg. not breathing, not going anywhere.
[/quote]
well, i wuz gonna get all pissy and flame away, and then i checked your profile. instead i laughed. thanks man, i appreciated it!!
_________________
-so precious lovin the thrill...
|
Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2008-03-20 16:23
@Kan, yeah... you're about the only one.
*shrug* Back to Tabula Rasa then I guess. Have fun playing with eachother's dicts.
_________________
Do I really look like a guy with a plan?
'I'm gonna go crazy, and I'm taking you with me!'
ICC Security Council Chief Enforcer
|
Leviatan
Cadet
Joined: April 22, 2005
Posts: 186
| Posted: 2008-03-20 16:39
Quote:
|
On 2008-03-20 16:14, Rae wrote:
well, i wuz gonna get all pissy and flame away, and then i checked your profile. instead i laughed. thanks man, i appreciated it!!
|
|
Yep, it's an excellent profile with an excellent k/d ratio, and it's my personal placeholder for the fact that I gained about 10k planet bombing points over the course of just one weekend.
Not sure what part of my two earlier posts you have in your obviously infinite wisdom, completely misunderstood, but you are playing right into my bag and you don't seem to be even aware of it.
You see, the most of those deaths on my profile are accidents with a bomber destroyer, which cost me 40-60 prestige each or so, meaning that out of the 71 recorded deaths, I may have lost a dozen, give or take, of real combat ships, which is a massive efficiency achievement and a big boon for my prestige.
Was it not for interdictors, I wouldn't have even 40 deaths on there.
Yet for some reasons, these anti-mirv threads respawn daily when you havent really even lost anything at the end of the day, where as I have lost approx. 2-3% of my total prestige gained because of your interdictors.
So far I haven't made a single anti-interdictor thread, or started rambling about it like a 10 years old ADHD kid in lack of ritalin, where as some of you guys have even gone as far as rambling about me on the faction chat, as if it would hamper my progress, nevermind that some of you even trade information where I move using friend chat, meaning I have to move substantially faster and nuke far more planets to keep the strategic advantage in my favor, since it's somewhat difficult to tell if people have exact coordinates *COUGHSTARFISTFERALSATURNCOUGH* where I might be, I have to move from planet to another very rapidly to keep up with the pace.
I have even started reloading on your own planets to bomb more of your own planets, because I know it's extremely annoying to this specific group of idiots mentioned earlier and here, although probably not any more annoying than the information network a few folks like to spin around.
I'm more than happy to continue the nuclear war, even if I have to subscribe 5 extra accounts to run my personal fleet on multiple computers at the same time in order to keep up with the opposition.
_________________
|
Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2008-03-20 16:53
Quote:
|
On 2008-03-20 16:39, Tactical Missile {JASSM} wrote:
I'm more than happy to continue the nuclear war, even if I have to subscribe 5 extra accounts to run my personal fleet on multiple computers at the same time in order to keep up with the opposition.
|
|
Quote:
|
Using multiple accounts in-game to provide an advantage over a single ship is prohibited.
A single player commanding multiple ships in a single game server is forbidden, as it provides that player an unfair advantage over others. Whereas DarkSpace is at its core a team game, and ships are balanced assuming that one person controls one ship, having multiple ships can provide a clear advantage for a single player. This is therefore forbidden.
|
|
ohsnap.
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-03-20 16:54
Just FYI:
K/D ratio means diddly squat.
Bombing points gained over an hour, day, weekend, week, month, year - means diddly squat.
I ask you all to take a step back and remind yourselves this is a game.
A game is meant for enjoyment and fun.
That goes for both/all sides of the party.
Yes - interdictor's ruin the fun.
Yes - MiRVing en-mass ruins the fun.
So how about those of you doing it to the degree to annoy people, take a step back and realise you're trying to get fun/your kicks from other people's misery.
Lighten-up, and try and let everyone have a bit of fun. After all - there are lots of other ways to have fun here.
- Jack
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-03-20 16:55 ]
_________________
|
Leviatan
Cadet
Joined: April 22, 2005
Posts: 186
| Posted: 2008-03-20 17:04
Quote:
|
On 2008-03-20 16:53, Doran wrote:
ohsnap.
|
|
Yeah, snap indeed, shame though that these kind of vague rules seem to be pretty selectively enforced?
And Jack, it isnt about sadistic pleasure. I'm not out of my mind that much yet.
As long as these intra-community information networks go around to prevent others from playing effectively without any uncommon amounts of effort and dedication, it just happens I dont have time for anything else but bombing whenever I'm playing, due to it being so that some people here are completely hell-bent with their inner circles and definition of a player.
EDIT:
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that some people seem to think it's a brilliant idea to sell out to another faction without seemingly being aware that I for some reason am on their friendlist.
Those who've done it; well, it's not really a great idea per-se. Guess why?
[ This Message was edited by: Tactical Missile {JASSM} on 2008-03-20 17:10 ]
_________________
|
Dionysian *EP5* (Angel of Destruction)
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: November 21, 2003
Posts: 135
| Posted: 2008-03-20 17:09
@ tactical missile
If you rebuild all the planets you Mirv (even prebuilding) then its not so bad.
BUT in your pres hunt you destroy all the othger teams SYs.
Therefore when they log in - they can;'t spawn anyway other than home planets.
They might move through the MV in a command dread for a while - capping and building a bit but will eventually get bored as no combat.
No combat beacuse if theres 3-4 wasted systems between you and th enemy are yoiu really going to go after them?
Even if you do - neither sidewill have a base near which makes combat less great.
Thats why people hate Mirvers - it destroys the combat.
Also - after a while - the builders will stop building - no point building the same planets time after time.
Put the two together and youy get
No combat for those who like combat.
No combat = no supping
Builders get bored so no more bombing
= dead game.
As you said - Mirving and Dictoring are both legal but ruin the game. So stop ruining the game whichever way you do it and if you are doing it don;t complain when others try and stop you by using legal tactics
_________________
|
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
